Russians:Bad UUnit Bad WBuilding

[Ermak-]

I think russians end up on teh short end when it comes to uniqe building and unit. Cossaks only advantage (50% vs horse) is they cant be fought with cavalery, period. But who would want to anyway,- cavalery contered by riflemen so its a useless bonus. By that time people are switching to infantry away from cavalery in any case. Plus its pretty late in game to make much difference even if u could exploit this bonus.
Uniqe building is ( + 2 scientists) WAy too late and when it comes cannot make much of a diference. by that time research is counted in hundreds per turn, so +4 more reach is a drop in the ocean.
Thanks at least to the traits, they are fine with all 3 of the leaders. (stalin, Catherine, Peter)

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Beeline to labs helps to get more out of UB, play Vanilla for killer Cossacks (i don't remember if they vanilla csksksks got nerfed in a patch later..).

 

[Ermak-]

Beeline to labs helps to get more out of UB, play Vanilla for killer Cossacks (i don't remember if they vanilla csksksks got nerfed in a patch later..).

i dont play OLD versions of anything, i dont even use Winwods XP for that matter (even thow Vista sux)

 

[Julian Delphiki]

Did you miss ? It wasn't too serious suggestion.. but maybe i should try vanilla, it's been two years. Last time i was about to try Warlords again i would've had to get CD from other room.. so i didn't try it .

 

[Reffie2]

I always play as Catherine. I've heard a lot of thinks like 'The Imperialistic trait is underpowered' and 'Cossacks suck'.

I play mostly custom games, 18 civs, huge map with pangaea or 3 huge continents on Noble difficulty.
I can build new cities quickly and I gain at least 2 Great Generals when in war.
When I can build cossacks I can still promote them to kill gunpowder units like riflemen.
I know that riflemen have an advantage against cavalry but you shouldn't only build units of 1 type.

In patch 1.7..for CIV4, they made the Cossacks even weaker so I guess they aren't weak afterall(well, maybe now).

The Russian researchlab(or something) is ment to give you an advantage with the spacerace victory, you can build spaceshipparts 50% faster wich is nice.

I played with other Civs with the same map settings and my scores dropped a lot. But then again I never played much with the other civs.
Though I let the cpu play as Catherine and she is always 1st.

 

[Ermak-]

there is 1.7 patch comming soon? Never hear do of it- can u provide a link?

 

[Leeksoup]

The Russian researchlab(or something) is ment to give you an advantage with the spacerace victory, you can build spaceshipparts 50% faster wich is nice.

That's true, and you have isolated the RL's biggest benefit. But remember, that only helps people who want a space race- and also remember that regular, non-UB labs still boost spaceship production by 25%, so it's not as much as it seems.

 

[Reffie2]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=232113

This is not a patch for Beyond the Sword, only for the regular CIV4. I don't understand why the changed cossacks in the regular CIV4 and didn't in BTS.

I didn't knew that everyone else still has the 25% spaceship production. I don't play online but are the UU's UB's that important?
If you play as Egypt and I also play as Egypt but without the UU/UB, do you now have a huge advantage?

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

I think a lot of UUs deserve a buff/unnerf, Russia is a prime candidate.

 

[griderjn]

i usually play as Catherine the Great myself, and as every expansion and patch/update has been introduced the power of the cossacks has diminished. they used to be very worth the unique building being usable with only the one victory condition. i believe that someone had come up with a uu for russia being the helicopter, and it sounded like a good idea, unfortunately firaxis did not feel the same way. maybe we should start a petition or something. so many civilizations have uu that are useless once you get to a certain point in the game. which is understandable with some civ's being as they no longer exist and/or are technologically deficient and all.

 

[Dnomal]

Russia should definately be beefed up, like giving cossacks a +50% bonus when attacking, to reresent the terroro of having cossacks charge towards you.

The UB can be summed up in two words (IMO), too late, not to little, just to late, think about it, two free scientists? That's the same bonus as the Library of Alexandria, but it comes so late it's just irrelevant, if your going for a spaceship victory it might be worth it, i don't know i never tried playing Russia that way.

Russia should be a hell of a lot stronger, i mean the Tsars did conquer a VAST VAST VAST land empire, that would have put Caesar to shame, they need a good UU....

I think a petition's IS a good idea, afterall the polish nationalists started one and look now.... oh wait....

 

[kristopherb]

I think a petition's IS a good idea, afterall the polish nationalists started one and look now.... oh wait....

I know but its poland.

There are some UUs which need a boost, cossacks, redcoats,consquadors are shadows of what they once was. I think 16st for cossacks and 50% vs mounted is enough (its because of Stalin,stablescossacks were nerfed), Redcoats 15st with 25% vs gun or 16st without ,preferably the first (its because of churchill redcoats were nerfed). Conquisadors should be 14st without the abillity to fortify and 50% vs mellee.

 

[TheLastOne36]

I think a petition's IS a good idea, afterall the polish nationalists started one and look now.... oh wait....

How the heck poland didn't get into BTS and the HRE did!!!



* walks away before one of the famous polish specialties, the "Polish Thread Hi-jacking" occurs.*

 

[Xenocrates]

I quite like Russia/Peter. The granary + Health + worker + philosophical bonuses work well together and 2 more scientists in a GP farm is nice, but I'd take 1 1/2 with observatories instead....

I also think that having stacks almost immune from horseback counter attacks is decent. You save having to use the anti-horse promotion.

It's true that earlier UB's and UU's are almost always better, but Peter's traits are well balanced to (almost) make up for it.

That's against the AI. I imagine that Peter would be ripped up by a human as a stronger early-game Civ.

 

[CHEESE!]

well its better than the Conquistador nerf, Conquis were great until they were made Curassiers.Now they can only own melee units. Woohoo no one uses melees any more, they having riflemen!

 

[Backwards Logic]

How the heck poland didn't get into BTS and the HRE did!!!



* walks away before one of the famous polish specialties, the "Polish Thread Hi-jacking" occurs.*

Yeah, it's too bad Poland wasn't introduced into the game. It would have answered a lot of questions, including: "Do Polish tanks really have one gear foward and multiple gears in reverse" (Unique Unit: Polish Tank: 1 movement when advancing towards enemy troops, 3 movement when moving in opposite direction) and "Do Polish grenadiers really throw the pin and not the grenade?" (Unit: Grenadier, 75% chance grenade will explode before being thrown and cause collateral damage to friendly stack)

 

[kniteowl]

Maybe if cossacks were curassiers instead of cavalry that would make them better?
So str12 +50% against mounted....
It would have a shorter life span but it would make in almost undefeatable as its only counter (pikeman) have the same modified strength as it and ets fewer promotions AND needs more exp to get formation that cossacks need to get shock.

That's a bit overpowered? They can run over Cavalry, (their Upgrade) easily.

12*1.5 = 18 str
15/1.5 = 10 str

Maybe a +25% bonus vs Mounted units like they have in Vanilla and Warlords Recent Patches.

12*1.25 = 15str
15/1.25 = 12str

This way they have an equal chance against Cavalry.

 

[Leeksoup]

Well, Panzers can steamroll Modern Armor. I think it's acceptable for a Cuirasier Cossack to have +50%.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I say just keep their uniques crappy and give Catherine her old badass trait combo back. Willem Van Oranje doesn't deserve it. He should be in game what he is in real life: a ruler of a scrub civ no one cares about or has ever cared about. So this way, both Catherine and Peter would have great traits, and therefore the russians wouldn't need good uniques.

Moderator Action: Warned! - Trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Bandobras Took]

Willem Van Oranje doesn't deserve it. He should be in game what he is in real life: a ruler of a scrub civ no one cares about or has ever cared about.
Moderator Action: Warned! - Trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

Yeah, who cares that he ruled the British?