Saka horse archer

[nitedemon]

Could someone enlighten me on this one ? So saka as a range unit, has lower strength and range than an archer but the production cost is more than a horseman and won't be able to upgrade until field cannon is unlocked, the only good thing is the 4 movement, but it is not like you can move after attack, why build this thing at all (other than the steam achievement of course)?

 

[SupremacyKing2]

But Scythia get 2 for the price of one. That's a pretty nice bonus!

 

[nitedemon]

But Scythia get 2 for the price of one. That's a pretty nice bonus!

Scythia also has buy 1 get 1 free for horseman too, which is cheaper and much higher strength, so shouldn't I build that instead? I mean yes, maybe if you don't have horse resource, but if that's the case I would just do regular archer, which can be a lot more useful tactic wise becasue of the range of 2

 

[SupremacyKing2]

but if that's the case I would just do regular archer, which can be a lot more useful tactic wise because of the range of 2

They both have their purposes. Yes the archer is stronger and has longer range but it is slower. Archers are great as garrisoned units, especially with the promotion that boosts them in cities and districts. If you don't need to move your archers a lot, they are great as defensive units. But as you pointed out, the Saka horse archer has a movement of 4, making a very fast unit. So with the "build 1, get 1 free" ability, you can spam lots of saka horse achers. Individually, they are weaker than a single archer unit, but you have more of them and they can move further. So you can build a larger force that can strike fast and move fast. You are relying on numbers. 4 saka horse archers all attacking a single unit at once will be stronger than a single archer attacking the unit.

 

[nitedemon]

They both have their purposes. Yes the archer is stronger and has longer range but it is slower. Archers are great as garrisoned units, especially with the promotion that boosts them in cities and districts. If you don't need to move your archers a lot, they are great as defensive units. But as you pointed out, the Saka horse archer has a movement of 4, making a very fast unit. So with the "build 1, get 1 free" ability, you can spam lots of saka horse achers. Individually, they are weaker than a single archer unit, but you have more of them and they can move further. So you can build a larger force that can strike fast and move fast. You are relying on numbers. 4 saka horse archers all attacking a single unit at once will be stronger than a single archer attacking the unit.

I guess in the scenario of chasing after one unit , the saka would be superior to archer. But in my game most of my fights are either defending my cities or conquering theirs, I guess this is why I find saka situational at best.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I guess in the scenario of chasing after one unit , the saka would be superior to archer. But in my game most of my fights are either defending my cities or conquering theirs, I guess this is why I find saka situational at best.

I would add that the 4 movement points works best on flat terrain since your unit will be able to move 4 hexes in a single turn. So in that regards, it is situational. If you are on a map with lots of flat terrain, you can spam a lot of saka horse archers quickly and really rush your opponent.

 

[TheGreatSleepyOne]

Archer
Upgrade Path: Ranged;
Melee Strength: 15;
Ranged Strength: 25;
Movement: 2;
Range: 2;
Base Production Cost: 50;
Upkeep: 1;

Saka Horse Archer
Upgrade Path: Ranged;
Melee Strength: 15;
Ranged Strength: 25;
Movement: 4;
Range: 1;
Base Production Cost: 100;
Upkeep: 2;
Ignores Anti-Cavalry bonuses.
EDIT: With a Great General, can move over 2 hills and shoot.

They are the same in terms of combat stats. The 4 movement is why you would build them; It allows them to traverse 2 hill tiles in one turn. You also get 2 copies when build one so they essentially have the same cost. It is really easy to steamroll entire continents with a swarm of horse archers, horsemen, heavy chariots (to upgrade into knights later) and battering rams/siege towers (for when walls pop up). I think the 4 movement points is enough to justify building them even though they only have 1 range. The downside to the Saka horse Archer is that it has 2 upkeep because it is a Classical Era unit. So unlike archers, they are not free to maintain with the Military Policy Card "Conscription". This makes them less useful around the Medieval Era if you find yourself fighting against knights and crossbows. Not upgrading until Field Cannons is kind of annoying, but I think the point of the unit is to dominate the field in the classical era and then hopefully have a wide enough empire to pursue whatever win condition you want from there.

 

[ltccone]

Archer
Upgrade Path: Ranged;
Melee Strength: 15;
Ranged Strength: 25;
Movement: 2;
Range: 2;
Base Production Cost: 50;
Upkeep: 1;

Saka Horse Archer
Upgrade Path: Ranged;
Melee Strength: 15;
Ranged Strength: 25;
Movement: 4;
Range: 1;
Base Production Cost: 100;
Upkeep: 2;
Ignores Anti-Cavalry bonuses.

They are the same in terms of combat stats. The 4 movement is why you would build them; It allows them to traverse 2 hill tiles in one turn. You also get 2 copies when build one so they essentially have the same cost. It is really easy to steamroll entire continents with a swarm of horse archers, horsemen, heavy chariots (to upgrade into knights later) and battering rams/siege towers (for when walls pop up). I think the 4 movement points is enough to justify building them even though they only have 1 range. The downside to the Saka horse Archer is that it has 2 upkeep because it is a Classical Era unit. So unlike archers, they are not free to maintain with the Military Policy Card "Conscription". This makes them less useful around the Medieval Era if you find yourself fighting against knights and crossbows. Not upgrading until Field Cannons is kind of annoying, but I think the point of the unit is to dominate the field in the classical era and then hopefully have a wide enough empire to pursue whatever win condition you want from there.

At least in Civ 6 ranged units don't upgrade to melee units to make their promotions useless like in Civ 5 (Hunnic Horse Archer, I'm looking at you).

 

[Mr_PeaCH]

Taken just as you describe them, even getting 2-for-1 when building them, they are not incredible units. But the other militaristic benefit that all Scythian units get is up to 50 points healed if/when they finish off their opponent (decisive victory). I like to get a swarm going; about 4 each of standard Horsemen and Saka Archers. Work them in pairs.

 

[MisterBoomBoom]

Don't need horses either it seems.

 

[Lord Katana]

The saka horse archer is meant (imho) as the first damage-dealer so the cav gets it's bonus against damaged units. They also combine well with the other Scythia UA to heal. They are weak, but if/when the kill a unit they get back to full health.
Don't overdo their numbers, just sprinkle them in with the cav units for max effect.

 

[steveg700]

Shall we post some links to the not-few "Scythia is OP" and "Scythia is broken" threads?

 

[dturtle1]

@ Lord Katana ... Yeah Exactly...They are a complementary piece rather than a alpha unit, a damn good complementary piece at that