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SAM vs Modern Armor

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by STEINMAN1000, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    Ok, potentially another dumb question from me. How the heck does a SAM take out a modern armor? I am playing future era, have several SOD consisting of modern armor, mech inf, mobile artillery and sam units. When the AI engages one of my armor with SAM, it destroys my armor almost every single time. Am I missing something here? SAM stands for Surface to AIR Missile, right? Armor is a ground unit. Please, someone enlighten me here...
     
  2. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

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    Are you attacking or defending? Are your units on full health? Defensive bonuses can mean a lot (which is why you should always bring siege or do pre-siege rushes). Check the odds before you attack, sounds like they have defensive bonuses.
     
  3. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    I am defending, no problem when I am attacking,my units full health, armor gets no defensive bonus (dont get me started on that), it is just frustrating to see AI mobile sam's repeatedly take out most of my armor units. Getting to the point where I am considering JUST building mech inf and no armor.
     
  4. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    If the AI is attacking and winning most of the time the odds are collateral from bombers or artillery has hit you first. With enough collateral you can give muskets winning odd against modern armour :p
     
  5. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

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    Screenshot the combat log, which you can get by pressing Ctrl+Tab. Probably collateral, as Ghpstage said.
     
  6. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    Yeah...it is colat damage. It is just frustrating as heck. I dont know why they made armor so vulnerable, no defensive bonus? Like a tank cant dig in and fortify a defensive position? Really? The main NATO defensive doctrine in the Cold War was to have armor dug into multiple positions, fire and blead the leading echelons, and retreat to another fortified position. Read Red Storm Rising. Granted, they are great at attacking, but mech inf can do just about as good as a job, AND they get defensive bonus. Next game, NO armor. I'll see what happens then. BTW, sorry for the rant.
     
  7. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    Of course, even if you believe mechanized infantry may be roughly comparable on the attack to tanks, modern armor is far better still!
     
  8. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Two words that always apply...mixed stack. Even with collateral damage if you have a mixed stack the SAMs will have to fight through your mech infantry with all their defense bonuses before they get into your armor...in other words they probably won't get into your armor.
     
  9. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    But at what cost? Mech Inf is cheaper to build, and again, get defensive bonus. In warfare, as most of you know, numbers in and of itself can be a very powerful weapon.
     
  10. Sanguivorant

    Sanguivorant Submitter

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    You are making mistake by attacking with Stacks of Doom, I believe.

    Stacks of Doom are extremely easy to weaken through collateral damage. I have several times attacked in the Modern Era with a stack of doom. What ends up happening is that I watch it being bombarded by artillery, airplanes and bomber planes about 50 times, and infantry end up cleaning everything, even tanks.

    Set up several small stacks, each with a medic unit. it's hard to damage all of them through collateral damage that way.
     
  11. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    Yeah, learned that lesson the hard way, I have been using smaller stacks and more spread them out more, and this tactic seems a little more realistic, more mobility, as the AI, like you said, seems to have a more difficult time colat damage alot of small stacks. Thanks for the info.
     
  12. Sanguivorant

    Sanguivorant Submitter

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    No problem brah. Sometimes, you have to learn the hard way.

    The spreading out tactic is realistic to modern warfare. Armies are never fielded together anymore, and are split up to regiments spread out over several regions. A concentrated force is so easy to take out with an artillery barrage nowadays.

    The major players in World War I learned the hard way, too. Do you know of the Battle of the Somme?
     
  13. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    Heard of it, but not familiar with it. Ever read the novel, Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy? Story about WWIII between Nato and Warsaw Pact (Soviets). Alot of the tactics in that book still apply to modern real life today. You know, I really miss radar artillery from CIV3, it was more realistic of modern warfare than CIV4 mobile artillery.
     
  14. crazyotto65

    crazyotto65 Chieftain

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    Embed a few SAM Infantry or Mobile SAM in your stack of armor. That way, your armor should take less collateral damage (Your own SAM would be defenders..)
     
  15. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Splitting up stacks isn't something to do to suffer less collateral damage, as if your in a situation where your likely to suffer it your stacks will face total annihlation very quickly! You'd only want to split it up when you've either broken the enemies counterattack, or if you plan to take more than one key city quickly.
    To deal with bomber attacks bring anti air units, in particular fighters.


    If nuclear weapons are going to be involved however, that does change things.
     
  16. STEINMAN1000

    STEINMAN1000 Chieftain

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    Thanks everyone for the tips. I do use mixed stacks, especially with mobile sams to help counter the bombing threat. And yes, I am very familiar with the AI using nukes against my stacks, I really hate that!!:mad:
     
  17. MyOtherName

    MyOtherName Emperor

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    You can do that with tanks: let the infantry step forward, then attack and retreat a step back. Repeat until infantry is dead. Or two steps back if you're attacking enemy tanks in your own territory.

    Or attack from the cover of an actual fortified position defended with infantry.


    You get more numbers, but strength does mean a lot too. And don't forget that tanks/armor actually get upgrades suitable for the attack that infantry don't: e.g. blitz, city raider, flanking. Blitz + Drill is especially devastating if you have a source of collateral damage, since you only need a few tanks to mop up a large number of units.

    The lack of defensive bonuses is just an alternative way of giving units an attack/defense stat. Infantry are better at defending than attacking, and tanks are better at attacking than defending. Another game might make infantry cheaper and let them kill on attack if 1d6 = 1 (i.e. you get a 1 when rolling a six-sided die) and on defense if 1d6 = 1 or 2, whereas a tank is more expensive and can kill on attack if 1d6 = 1,2, or 3 and kill on defense if 1d6 = 1 od 2.
     

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