Gool's Fold
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2021
- Messages
- 2
{Short-list of questions at the end of this post.}
(When you've learnt how to cheat [worldbuilder] you never need to learn how to play.)
Following the build every building in every city strategy, at Noble level, I've won this game (Warlords version) twice (without cheating) in the last 5 years. So yah, the rapid expansion, build forts, and build every building strategy which works in Civ's I & II aren't particularly successful with this game.
But...
Downloading a saved game and copying what others do may be good for teaching a monkey "how" to win that single game, but it doesn't really teach a human 'why' some strategies work or fail in different situations.
I need advice which isn't in gamespeak but in English.
I have no doubt these questions were asked and answered a decade ago, but that just means I'm a decade behind the current whipcycle and cannot comprehend these helpful tips. HoF = Hall of Fame??? Hunting or Fishing??? How others Feel??? (whipcycle???)
So, a few questions if I may:
1. Will mining a snow covered hill cost my city 1 Food? (hills = -1F & snow = 0F) [I had a city in Tundra whose max pop was 6. I wondered if it would be Starved down to 5 if there was a snow covered hill to mine.]
2. Do cities receive income, etc, from resources that are not within their fat-t but within their cultural boundaries?
i.] If my city has 3 beaver within its fat-t, and 4 more beaver (all with camps) within its boundaries, does it automatically get 20 Commerce per turn for the beaver outside its fat-t? (If the city doesn't get the income/production bonus/cultural bonus/resource bonus, does my Civ get it instead?) [I know my civ gains access to those resources, but there is a difference between having access to Stone and having 1 Stone for Trade or personal use.]
ii.] If my city does get the Commerce value from stuff within its cultural borders, what happens when another city also shares those resources?
iii.] (Re-stating part of "i.]") Does my civ get 7 beaver for trade, or only 3, when 4 of my 7 beaver are outside a fat-t?
3. The Civilopedia for my game (Warlords) has no references to the Warlords features or changes. Is there a version specific Civilopedia available, or a list of buildings/units/leaders/traits which are correct for this version of the game?
4. I should mention that the only two times I've won, I was playing on some sort of island. Recently I read that playing on a Pangea Map was the best map choice for beginners. But...
I've found that if I don't try for the Stonehenge Wonder, my cultural borders do not expand fast enough to block the other civ's from building in my territory; and if I do build Stonehenge, barbarians have built cities in the nearby places I wanted to claim for my civ. (Not Raging Barbarians, just the regular sort.)
With that said...
i.] should I be chaining/building cities so close together that they share parts of their fat-t's?
ii.] if someone else has built Stonehenge, and I don't want to build soon-to-be-obsolete Monuments, what early-access buildings are best for expanding my cultural borders?
iii.] by the time I build Stonehenge, a work boat, and one troop, the barbarian cities wth 1-5 pop already have 2 or 3 fortified units and are each spitting out archers/axemen every 2-3 turns to attack my cities and workers. Is this game meant to be played with 2 cities until you get ironworking and 12-15 swordsmen to attack barbarian cities which have 3-5 fortified troops in them?
iv.] When playing on an island (isolated), I've found that Founding a Religion, and building both Stonehenge and the Oracle (Metal Casting) are essential to at least being competitive with the other Civ's. Since this strategy does not work on a map with competitors that share the same landmass, what kinds of early strategies, techs, and buildings work best together?
(On an island, a Leader without Mysticism has time to Found a Religion. On a Continent, that Leader has to have different priorities but I don't understand what choices I should be making.)
5. Recently, I was shocked to read an opinion that stated the only essential building was the Granary. I realized that perhaps this game could be played using a rapid expansion strategy and that this strategy was not so much about building a civilization, but instead making war and utilizing new technologies that could also be used to 'civilize' some of the better cities I've founded. (I'm not fond of war games.)
Is that what Civ IV is? A war game with technologies you have to research in order to make better war?
(In Civ's I and II, you could play warmonger, or you could build a civilization and defend it from warring states.)
6. Open Borders...
Open Borders allows for more lucrative Trade Routes, which in turn leads to better Commerce/Research. But Open Borders also means your opponents can found cities in territory you've tried to surround to be claimed later. (IE a peninsula you want to settle but which is strategically less important.)
Between barbarians who are also claiming that land and not wanting to fall behind technologically...
So now we come to the crux of the matter... this game is not about a series of steps, but a series of balancing choices.
For example, recently I had to go out of my way into unstrategic territory to found a low quality city (my fifth) on a coastline. I wanted to build Wonders which would increase Trade and the number of Trade Routes; but I was too late. Both Notre Dame and the Colossus were built before I had researched Metal Casting (The Notre Dame was just an indication of how far behind I was by the time I built my fifth city.)
So, when playing a custom Pangea map:
1. What Victory Conditions are appropriate?
2. What are the minumum acceptable food/etc resources for a founding city?
3. Under what circumstances should early Wonders be built? (How critical are Stonehenge and the Oracle? Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, etc? Is The Parthenon a better choice than Artemis?)
4. Would you recommend a beginner try to build a civilization that doesn't have coastal cities?
5. Resource/land grabs and Cultural Borders... Can't have one without the other but you can't build settlers and cultural buildings at the same time. What is the solution?
6. Should I try to keep my borders closed and lose Trade/Commerce? OR Should I have Open Borders and lose the territory I want to claim?
7. Expansion, when is a good time to stop expanding and to start consolidating my position? (1 city, 4 cities, 22 cities?)
*********************************************************************************************************************************
Short version:
1. Does having your citizens work a snow covered hill cost that city a Food needed for population growth?
2A. Resources within Cultural Borders but not within the fat-t... What benefits do they have for the city or cities that share them?
2B. Resources within Cultural Borders but not within the fat-t... (After development) Do they count toward a Resource you can Trade, or do they only give your Civ the benefit of access?
3. I'm playing the Warlords version of the game. Is there a Warlords version of the Civilpoedia available, or a list of changes made to the game for that version?
4. Building Cities and City buildings/Wonders... In one person's opinion, a Granary is the only building you need, and that person didn't say whether building settlers until your founding city's population reached 10 and then building a Granary was a good idea or if you should only build a settler after you've built your first Granary.
So I've figured out that founding your first city, a coastal city with 3 sea resources, is not the best city for researching Animal Husbandry first. But what about a landlocked city that has both rice (wet or dry) and cows? If Granaries are the only critical building, should I put Agriculture ahead of Animal Husbandry? Even if I only have Fresh Water and 2 Animal Resources?
*This question is not so much a question as an interest in your opinions and what works for you under which circumstances... Personally, I might be inclined to forego researching Agriculture first if I had 2 Animal Resources... But considering I've only found losing strategies so far, I really need to learn what works (for you and hopefully me too).
5. My playstyle is to build a civilization and defend it (A city building game with war aspects). I'm beginning to suspect that this is a wargame that has a side order of civilization. Would you agree that this is a war game with city building aspects?
6. Without Open Borders you lose out on critical Commerce and the Research Commerce generates. With Open Borders, your opponents can claim land you hoped to stragically reserve for later use. Under what circumstances will you agree to having, or refuse to have, an Open Borders agreement?
Custom Pangea Map...
7. Is this the best map for learning how to play this game?
8. What would you consider the minimum number of resources a newbie should have for a founding city, and more importantly, what kinds of resources? (IE: I wouldn't expect you to recommend having both [and only] Stone and Marble; both in desert tiles.) Could you also explain "why" you have made those recommendations?
9. Under what circumstances should early Wonders be built? (How critical are Stonehenge and the Oracle? Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, etc? Is The Parthenon a better choice than Artemis if your founding city is food poor?)
10. Would you recommend a beginner try to build a civilization that doesn't have coastal cities?
Actually, a better question might be, what strategies, and what nearby features/Resources, makes a landlocked city a viable choice as a founding city?
11. By interlocking cities, you don't need to expand your city's Cultural Borders. By expanding a city's Cultural Borders, you can strategically place cities to gather Resorces. What would you consider a good balance of Wonders, Cultural Buildings, and strategic land grabs?
12. Expand/consolidate, repeat often. How many cities would you consider optimal for a starting civ to build before starting to concentrate on developing their Resources? (IE: Settlers make cities and workers develop built cities and both halt city growth while being built. When should you consider stopping building cities and instead to start developing them?)
Thanks in advance for your input, and no insult intended to those who use acronyms and gamespeak. It's me who isn't advanced enough to understand what's being said.
PS: Although I haven't tried to follow-up, I've read something about stealing workers and using slaves. Is this possible in the Warlords version, and if so, could you please explain how it's done (and why it's advantageous)?
Also, something I read suggested that Forts had a Cultural Border of 1 tile and could be utilized to acquire resources and territory at the furthest reaches of your cultural Borders. (Suggested, not stated as fact.) Is this true?
Thanks again everyone who responds.
(When you've learnt how to cheat [worldbuilder] you never need to learn how to play.)
Following the build every building in every city strategy, at Noble level, I've won this game (Warlords version) twice (without cheating) in the last 5 years. So yah, the rapid expansion, build forts, and build every building strategy which works in Civ's I & II aren't particularly successful with this game.
But...
Downloading a saved game and copying what others do may be good for teaching a monkey "how" to win that single game, but it doesn't really teach a human 'why' some strategies work or fail in different situations.
I need advice which isn't in gamespeak but in English.
I have no doubt these questions were asked and answered a decade ago, but that just means I'm a decade behind the current whipcycle and cannot comprehend these helpful tips. HoF = Hall of Fame??? Hunting or Fishing??? How others Feel??? (whipcycle???)
So, a few questions if I may:
1. Will mining a snow covered hill cost my city 1 Food? (hills = -1F & snow = 0F) [I had a city in Tundra whose max pop was 6. I wondered if it would be Starved down to 5 if there was a snow covered hill to mine.]
2. Do cities receive income, etc, from resources that are not within their fat-t but within their cultural boundaries?
i.] If my city has 3 beaver within its fat-t, and 4 more beaver (all with camps) within its boundaries, does it automatically get 20 Commerce per turn for the beaver outside its fat-t? (If the city doesn't get the income/production bonus/cultural bonus/resource bonus, does my Civ get it instead?) [I know my civ gains access to those resources, but there is a difference between having access to Stone and having 1 Stone for Trade or personal use.]
ii.] If my city does get the Commerce value from stuff within its cultural borders, what happens when another city also shares those resources?
iii.] (Re-stating part of "i.]") Does my civ get 7 beaver for trade, or only 3, when 4 of my 7 beaver are outside a fat-t?
3. The Civilopedia for my game (Warlords) has no references to the Warlords features or changes. Is there a version specific Civilopedia available, or a list of buildings/units/leaders/traits which are correct for this version of the game?
4. I should mention that the only two times I've won, I was playing on some sort of island. Recently I read that playing on a Pangea Map was the best map choice for beginners. But...
I've found that if I don't try for the Stonehenge Wonder, my cultural borders do not expand fast enough to block the other civ's from building in my territory; and if I do build Stonehenge, barbarians have built cities in the nearby places I wanted to claim for my civ. (Not Raging Barbarians, just the regular sort.)
With that said...
i.] should I be chaining/building cities so close together that they share parts of their fat-t's?
ii.] if someone else has built Stonehenge, and I don't want to build soon-to-be-obsolete Monuments, what early-access buildings are best for expanding my cultural borders?
iii.] by the time I build Stonehenge, a work boat, and one troop, the barbarian cities wth 1-5 pop already have 2 or 3 fortified units and are each spitting out archers/axemen every 2-3 turns to attack my cities and workers. Is this game meant to be played with 2 cities until you get ironworking and 12-15 swordsmen to attack barbarian cities which have 3-5 fortified troops in them?
iv.] When playing on an island (isolated), I've found that Founding a Religion, and building both Stonehenge and the Oracle (Metal Casting) are essential to at least being competitive with the other Civ's. Since this strategy does not work on a map with competitors that share the same landmass, what kinds of early strategies, techs, and buildings work best together?
(On an island, a Leader without Mysticism has time to Found a Religion. On a Continent, that Leader has to have different priorities but I don't understand what choices I should be making.)
5. Recently, I was shocked to read an opinion that stated the only essential building was the Granary. I realized that perhaps this game could be played using a rapid expansion strategy and that this strategy was not so much about building a civilization, but instead making war and utilizing new technologies that could also be used to 'civilize' some of the better cities I've founded. (I'm not fond of war games.)
Is that what Civ IV is? A war game with technologies you have to research in order to make better war?
(In Civ's I and II, you could play warmonger, or you could build a civilization and defend it from warring states.)
6. Open Borders...
Open Borders allows for more lucrative Trade Routes, which in turn leads to better Commerce/Research. But Open Borders also means your opponents can found cities in territory you've tried to surround to be claimed later. (IE a peninsula you want to settle but which is strategically less important.)
Between barbarians who are also claiming that land and not wanting to fall behind technologically...
So now we come to the crux of the matter... this game is not about a series of steps, but a series of balancing choices.
For example, recently I had to go out of my way into unstrategic territory to found a low quality city (my fifth) on a coastline. I wanted to build Wonders which would increase Trade and the number of Trade Routes; but I was too late. Both Notre Dame and the Colossus were built before I had researched Metal Casting (The Notre Dame was just an indication of how far behind I was by the time I built my fifth city.)
So, when playing a custom Pangea map:
1. What Victory Conditions are appropriate?
2. What are the minumum acceptable food/etc resources for a founding city?
3. Under what circumstances should early Wonders be built? (How critical are Stonehenge and the Oracle? Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, etc? Is The Parthenon a better choice than Artemis?)
4. Would you recommend a beginner try to build a civilization that doesn't have coastal cities?
5. Resource/land grabs and Cultural Borders... Can't have one without the other but you can't build settlers and cultural buildings at the same time. What is the solution?
6. Should I try to keep my borders closed and lose Trade/Commerce? OR Should I have Open Borders and lose the territory I want to claim?
7. Expansion, when is a good time to stop expanding and to start consolidating my position? (1 city, 4 cities, 22 cities?)
*********************************************************************************************************************************
Short version:
1. Does having your citizens work a snow covered hill cost that city a Food needed for population growth?
2A. Resources within Cultural Borders but not within the fat-t... What benefits do they have for the city or cities that share them?
2B. Resources within Cultural Borders but not within the fat-t... (After development) Do they count toward a Resource you can Trade, or do they only give your Civ the benefit of access?
3. I'm playing the Warlords version of the game. Is there a Warlords version of the Civilpoedia available, or a list of changes made to the game for that version?
4. Building Cities and City buildings/Wonders... In one person's opinion, a Granary is the only building you need, and that person didn't say whether building settlers until your founding city's population reached 10 and then building a Granary was a good idea or if you should only build a settler after you've built your first Granary.
So I've figured out that founding your first city, a coastal city with 3 sea resources, is not the best city for researching Animal Husbandry first. But what about a landlocked city that has both rice (wet or dry) and cows? If Granaries are the only critical building, should I put Agriculture ahead of Animal Husbandry? Even if I only have Fresh Water and 2 Animal Resources?
*This question is not so much a question as an interest in your opinions and what works for you under which circumstances... Personally, I might be inclined to forego researching Agriculture first if I had 2 Animal Resources... But considering I've only found losing strategies so far, I really need to learn what works (for you and hopefully me too).
5. My playstyle is to build a civilization and defend it (A city building game with war aspects). I'm beginning to suspect that this is a wargame that has a side order of civilization. Would you agree that this is a war game with city building aspects?
6. Without Open Borders you lose out on critical Commerce and the Research Commerce generates. With Open Borders, your opponents can claim land you hoped to stragically reserve for later use. Under what circumstances will you agree to having, or refuse to have, an Open Borders agreement?
Custom Pangea Map...
7. Is this the best map for learning how to play this game?
8. What would you consider the minimum number of resources a newbie should have for a founding city, and more importantly, what kinds of resources? (IE: I wouldn't expect you to recommend having both [and only] Stone and Marble; both in desert tiles.) Could you also explain "why" you have made those recommendations?
9. Under what circumstances should early Wonders be built? (How critical are Stonehenge and the Oracle? Lighthouse, Temple of Artemis, etc? Is The Parthenon a better choice than Artemis if your founding city is food poor?)
10. Would you recommend a beginner try to build a civilization that doesn't have coastal cities?
Actually, a better question might be, what strategies, and what nearby features/Resources, makes a landlocked city a viable choice as a founding city?
11. By interlocking cities, you don't need to expand your city's Cultural Borders. By expanding a city's Cultural Borders, you can strategically place cities to gather Resorces. What would you consider a good balance of Wonders, Cultural Buildings, and strategic land grabs?
12. Expand/consolidate, repeat often. How many cities would you consider optimal for a starting civ to build before starting to concentrate on developing their Resources? (IE: Settlers make cities and workers develop built cities and both halt city growth while being built. When should you consider stopping building cities and instead to start developing them?)
Thanks in advance for your input, and no insult intended to those who use acronyms and gamespeak. It's me who isn't advanced enough to understand what's being said.
PS: Although I haven't tried to follow-up, I've read something about stealing workers and using slaves. Is this possible in the Warlords version, and if so, could you please explain how it's done (and why it's advantageous)?
Also, something I read suggested that Forts had a Cultural Border of 1 tile and could be utilized to acquire resources and territory at the furthest reaches of your cultural Borders. (Suggested, not stated as fact.) Is this true?
Thanks again everyone who responds.