Same sex marriage legalised in the United States

[aelf]

The best part is when you realize that more often than not it's all just a bunch of bigoted twerps tossing wet poo filled socks at each other over whose specific hate is winning at the moment.

Hey, it's your favourite "Everyone is at least a little bit wrong, and so everyone is equally wrong" argument again!

 

[Farm Boy]

Hey, it's your favourite "Everyone is at least a little bit wrong, and so everyone is equally wrong" argument again!

If you think it makes them equally wrong, or if you think that's what I'm saying, then you don't keep up as well as I thought you do.

No doubt. I have my own wet poo filled socks. The big difference between me and a lot of people is that I don't let having them pointed out deter me. The losing sock of the day is the one the SCOTUS just declared fair game, so the people stuck with that sock are gonna get poo lashed until they drop 'em.

Doesn't mean Tim wouldn't, and I wouldn't, be better along with everyone else if we got tired of this coprophiliac game every now and then and picked up the mop more often.

 

[Senethro]

Srsly lolling at conservatives everywhere fussing so hard yet aware the tide has turned against them on this. Tears both bitter and salty and lots of moaning where they try to equate their bigotry with condemnation of bigotry. They ain't the same!

 

[JollyRoger]

It's just stinky fatties that can't attract a same sex partner of their own.

 

[Farm Boy]

Right right, you're ***holes. Very clever and new. Either way, it's still a win even if you're ***holes attempting to cheapen and mitigate the victory with being worse than we could be.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Doesn't mean Tim wouldn't, and I wouldn't, be better along with everyone else if we got tired of this coprophiliac game every now and then and picked up the mop more often.

Maybe. Or maybe if we accentuate the loss for the losers by literally burying them in turds they will get the point and not try to fight the same battle tomorrow on grounds that differ by as little as a single blade of grass.

 

[JollyRoger]

Scalia is apparently willing to step down so Obama can appoint a protestant from flyover country to take his spot:

Take, for example, this Court, which consists of only nine men and women, all of them successful lawyers 18 who studied at Harvard or Yale Law School. Four of the nine are natives of New York City. Eight of them grew up in east- and west-coast States. Only one hails from the vast expanse in-between. Not a single Southwesterner or even, to tell the truth, a genuine Westerner (California does not count). Not a single evangelical Christian (a group that comprises about one quarter of Americans 19 ), or even a Protestant of any denomination

 

[aelf]

If you think it makes them equally wrong, or if you think that's what I'm saying, then you don't keep up as well as I thought you do.

Sure. Like how people who really love the the Confederate flag aren't racist or how people who oppose the legalisation of gay marriage aren't bigoted. Apparently. There must be some highly nuanced and complex arguments behind them that we missed after all that time, like that little teapot orbiting the Earth.

 

[Farm Boy]

Maybe. Or maybe if we accentuate the loss for the losers by literally burying them in turds they will get the point and not try to fight the same battle tomorrow on grounds that differ by as little as a single blade of grass.

No, you'll get into a different one and nobody has learned to be housebroken so the layer gets deeper and deeper.

Sure. Like how people who really love the the Confederate flag aren't racist or how people who oppose the legalisation of gay marriage aren't bigoted. Apparently. There must be some highly nuanced and complex arguments behind them that we missed after all that time, like that little teapot orbiting the Earth.

Ok, wow, you really aren't keeping up. Some are and they are. In the order you mentioned them. Do you need that bulleted?

 

[Timsup2nothin]

No, you'll get into a different one and nobody has learned to be housebroken so the layer gets deeper and deeper.

Here is our core difference. I have accepted that not only is no one going to get housebroken, no one even really cares if anyone does. We may have opposable thumbs, but we just aren't that evolved.

 

[Farm Boy]

Here is our core difference. I have accepted that not only is no one going to get housebroken, no one even really cares if anyone does. We may have opposable thumbs, but we just aren't that evolved.

So you probably should have turned those keys at least a couple decades back.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So you probably should have turned those keys at least a couple decades back.

I so hate to admit it when you lose me...but ya lost me.

 

[Farm Boy]

Just trying to determine the appropriate level of optimism regarding what are our realistic options in prolonging slamming into the great filter. How much can we grow, and how much should we look at what we've been, decide that's what we are, and act accordingly. Either way, this is off topic. This is a glorious thread, I'd rather bow out, actually.

 

[Triewd]

Dear Gay Community: Your Kids Are Hurting
I loved my mom’s partner, but another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.

Gay community, I am your daughter. My mom raised me with her same-sex partner back in the ’80s and ’90s. She and my dad were married for a little while. She knew she was gay before they got married, but things were different back then. That’s how I got here. It was complicated as you can imagine. She left him when I was two or three because she wanted a chance to be happy with someone she really loved: a woman.

My dad wasn’t a great guy, and after she left him he didn’t bother coming around anymore.

Do you remember that book, “Heather Has Two Mommies”? That was my life. My mom, her partner, and I lived in a cozy little house in the ‘burbs of a very liberal and open-minded area. Her partner treated me as if I was her own daughter. Along with my mom’s partner, I also inherited her tight-knit community of gay and lesbian friends. Or maybe they inherited me?

Either way, I still feel like gay people are my people. I’ve learned so much from you. You taught me how to be brave, especially when it is hard. You taught me empathy. You taught me how to listen. And how to dance. You taught me not be afraid of things that are different. And you taught me how to stand up for myself, even if that means I stand alone.

I’m writing to you because I’m letting myself out of the closet: I don’t support gay marriage. But it might not be for the reasons that you think.
Children Need a Mother and Father

It’s not because you’re gay. I love you, so much. It’s because of the nature of the same-sex relationship itself.
It’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.

Growing up, and even into my 20s, I supported and advocated for gay marriage. It’s only with some time and distance from my childhood that I’m able to reflect on my experiences and recognize the long-term consequences that same-sex parenting had on me. And it’s only now, as I watch my children loving and being loved by their father each day, that I can see the beauty and wisdom in traditional marriage and parenting.

Same-sex marriage and parenting withholds either a mother or father from a child while telling him or her that it doesn’t matter. That it’s all the same. But it’s not. A lot of us, a lot of your kids, are hurting. My father’s absence created a huge hole in me, and I ached every day for a dad. I loved my mom’s partner, but another mom could never have replaced the father I lost.

I grew up surrounded by women who said they didn’t need or want a man. Yet, as a little girl, I so desperately wanted a daddy. It is a strange and confusing thing to walk around with this deep-down unquenchable ache for a father, for a man, in a community that says that men are unnecessary. There were times I felt so angry with my dad for not being there for me, and then times I felt angry with myself for even wanting a father to begin with. There are parts of me that still grieve over that loss today.

I’m not saying that you can’t be good parents. You can. I had one of the best. I’m also not saying that being raised by straight parents means everything will turn out okay. We know there are so many different ways that the family unit can break down and cause kids to suffer: divorce, abandonment, infidelity, abuse, death, etc. But by and large, the best and most successful family structure is one in which kids are being raised by both their mother and father.
Why Can’t Gay People’s Kids Be Honest?

Gay marriage doesn’t just redefine marriage, but also parenting. It promotes and normalizes a family structure that necessarily denies us something precious and foundational. It denies us something we need and long for, while at the same time tells us that we don’t need what we naturally crave. That we will be okay. But we’re not. We’re hurting.
If anyone can talk about hard things, it’s us.

Kids of divorced parents are allowed to say, “Hey, mom and dad, I love you, but the divorce crushed me and has been so hard. It shattered my trust and made me feel like it was my fault. It is so hard living in two different houses.” Kids of adoption are allowed to say, “Hey, adoptive parents, I love you. But this is really hard for me. I suffer because my relationship with my first parents was broken. I’m confused and I miss them even though I’ve never met them.”

But children of same-sex parents haven’t been given the same voice. It’s not just me. There are so many of us. Many of us are too scared to speak up and tell you about our hurt and pain, because for whatever reason it feels like you’re not listening. That you don’t want to hear. If we say we are hurting because we were raised by same-sex parents, we are either ignored or labeled a hater.

This isn’t about hate at all. I know you understand the pain of a label that doesn’t fit and the pain of a label that is used to malign or silence you. And I know that you really have been hated and that you really have been hurt. I was there, at the marches, when they held up signs that said, “God hates fags” and “AIDS cures homosexuality.” I cried and turned hot with anger right there in the street with you. But that’s not me. That’s not us.

I know this is a hard conversation. But we need to talk about it. If anyone can talk about hard things, it’s us. You taught me that.

Heather Barwick was raised by her mother and her mother's same-sex partner. She is a former gay-marriage advocate turned children's rights activist. She is a wife and mother of four rambunctious kids.

The problem is same sex marriages want children and that violates natural law.

Now for presenting an opposing view I will likely be flamed so I make no promises to stick around with the usual suspects. I may or may not respond. By all means flame - but remember this who you are in the dark, and what you think you can get away with are what you really are.

 

[Tahuti]

The problem is same sex marriages want children and that violates natural law.

That isn't a good argument. Natural law changes now and then. The human from a society that accepts gay marriage is an entirely differently specimen than his ancestors.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Scalia has me all fired up.
I might need to revive the Doom™ thread.
Have we fallen under judicial tyranny?



judicial Putsch? uh oh! Very nearly Godwin'd the whole thing!

Talk radio will be booked SOLID for the next month once you add in the Obamacare ruling.
I'm almost scared to read the other 2 dissents now.

That.... is a very persuasive writ.
I am troubled.

It persuades of two things. One, that the supreme court is decaying to corruption (to the peril of American democracy). Two, gay marriage should be a state issue.

I really don't see a way out of believing that the federal court is absolutely wrong to presume to rule on this, unless marriage ceased to be an object of law. So long as marriage is an object of positive law that concerns the "social life" of the People, every state will decide on which form of that law is right for them and cannot bow to the federal body on this.

Scalia may have you all fired up, but at the end of the day the absolutely most fundamental requirement for freedom to flourish is equal protection under the law, and that is really the only thing the court needed to concern itself with. The justices that feel the need to pander to the fundamentalists will blather about threats to freedom of religion, and Scalia will pander to the usual crowd of fascists who want to stir up fear of justice, but ultimately this was among the most simple issues the court is likely to face.

How are equal protection and marriage related?

 

[Farm Boy]

The only thing that "violates natural law" is children not having access to loving, stable parents and caregivers. It's not like heteros are exactly excelling on this issue, particularly when they're caught trying to artificially limit access to stable legal relationships amongst parents and caregivers.

Edit:

Doesn't mean your quoted article doesn't make a good point. It does, but it doesn't make the point your post following it makes. Its point, if you read it, is that adoptive children need to be able to grieve and seek out birth parents if possible and they want to. Closed adoption, as a state of being, is outmoded. Adoption itself, is not. Children of divorce need to be able to have access to both their loved parents and grieve as well. One parent takes most/all by default, as a legal state, is harmful. Allowing the legal divorce, is not. Children of same sex couples(and here was the point, if you caught it), need to be allowed stable and loving role models of both genders for maximum growth rather than existing in an environment that "doesn't need or want men." If you have kids, that line of thinking and its counterpart is also outmoded. Two same sex parents, is not.

 

[JollyRoger]

The problem is same sex marriages want children and that violates natural law.

What is unnatural about wanting a family?

 

[Arakhor]

The problem is same sex marriages want children and that violates natural law.

I've asked people what "natural law" is before and never really got a satisfactory answer or one that didn't involve reading whole theological texts. Can you do any better?

 

[madviking]

Scalia is apparently willing to step down so Obama can appoint a protestant from flyover country to take his spot:

scalia's mad there isn't anyone from the southwest on the supreme court but is not concerned that there's never been an openly gay justice

scalia is right that the court is very new york. 4 out of five boroughs represented. sorry staten island