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Samhain - why?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by PotatoOverdose, Jan 30, 2009.

?

Do you think Samhain should be cut from the mod?

  1. Yes, Samhain is worthless clutter that does nothing but hinder the AI!

    30 vote(s)
    21.9%
  2. No, Samhain has a deep significance for the mod, and the op is a fool to suggest this.

    50 vote(s)
    36.5%
  3. I like pie.

    57 vote(s)
    41.6%
  1. mahazel

    mahazel Warlord

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    Kraków
    At this point Illians are at war with everyone, so HN do nothing, but maybe they should be enraged, so you don`t think about they micrommanagement? But I think it`s not for main mod, but for modmods.
     
  2. Bad Player

    Bad Player Deity

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    (Bris)Vegas!
    I like the idea of frostlings attacking non-ice/tundra areas (so it is more likely to help the Illians).
     
  3. Demus

    Demus King

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2007
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    962
    fall further already has several barbarian civs, so this shouldn't be that tough to implement in the real game: just make the illians start at peace with the frostling race, the same way the clan and the doviello start at peace with the other barbs.
     
  4. FireBlaze

    FireBlaze King

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    Oct 6, 2008
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    738
    Not even start at peace, perminant peace. I can't think of any reason why they would unallly their maker.
     
  5. Justicar333

    Justicar333 Warlord

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    Ah, but do they know he is Mulcram running around in a borrowed Auric suit? Samhain needs some tweaking, but it does make a certain sense that they they don't follow the Illians.
     
  6. Grey Fox

    Grey Fox Master of Points

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    The only tweak needed is the AI. The ritual is fine.
     
  7. LDiCesare

    LDiCesare Deity

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    The ritual could use some tweaking, like not hurting the Illians themselves as much as the others. Either don't spawn frostlings near Illian territory, or give Illians 'winterborn) a small (20%?) chance of converting frostling they defeat.
    Another iption to make it more useful would be to allow the spell to decide where Mokka gets spawned (but there should be some randomness so it should not be accurate).
     
  8. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

    Joined:
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    my thoughts on this:

    1) frostlings should be friendly to the Illians ( spawning them as Illian units with HN, no maintenance costs and enraged should do the trick I guess )

    2) after the ritual is completed, frostlings should keep spawning in tundra/snow all throughout the game like all other barbs

    3) Mokka's cauldron should be an item Mokka starts with instead of a buildable wonder ( of course if you get it you can then add it to a city as a wonder, similar to the infernal grimoire )

    4) the ritual should be a prereq for the later ones, and possibly be repeatable ( others should be repeatable too imho, like the deepening and the white hand )

    5) they should probably not spawn in jungles cuz that looks weird :D
     
  9. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    May 15, 2008
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    I like the idea of frost giants. Make them unable to enter culture (as per hill giants) and you've got bit more flavor. I'm also very much in support of making frostlings spawn throughout the game. Just add them into the random spawner's code for ice and tundra. Sounds simple enough, not that I would know.

    One new idea I would like to contribute is that any frostling defeated by an Illian unit is converted. They're not very powerful units, but a directed band of frostlings could certainly aid in early conquest.
    Erm...that would mean some tweaking to Mokka would be needed. He's a tad powerful to plop into a player's hands that early in the game. Perhaps he's just a particularly rebellious frostling and wouldn't convert like normal ones do.
     
  10. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2008
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    4,007
    Frostlings should be friendly to the Illians. Just make them allied like some tribes start allied with barbarians.

    PS. Is it just me, or does the Pie seem to be wining?
     
  11. Monkeyfinger

    Monkeyfinger Deity

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    Oct 24, 2006
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    2,002
    It's because of the way the OP worded the other 2 options combined with the fact that a lot of FfH forum goers have bigger sticks up their asses than most paladins.
     
  12. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

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    I like pie.
     
  13. hbar

    hbar Constant

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    That, and most people like pie. Myself included.

    I don't particularly like Samhain, but I also don't particularly like Hallowing of the Elohim, or Nature's Revolt, or really any of the highly specialized, overly expensive rituals in the game. That said, they all have a very specific purpose, and I'd rather keep them in and not build them then try to make them into some kind of everygame uberbuilds.
     
  14. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    in ur empire, takin ur cities
    I'd just like to see Samhain pushed up... it can be a problem earlygame for AI civs, who get wasted by it.
     
  15. PanzerWolf

    PanzerWolf Chieftain

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    Where the trolls never die
    Isn't the Illians all about them taking a lot of high-effort risks to get back to the Age of Ice? This ritual can like The Draw also be a real pain for the Illians, but these rituals are they only way of having a chance to get back to the icy, glory days.
     
  16. arkham4269

    arkham4269 Court Writer - Orbis Mod

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    Vancouver, WA
    Perhaps the Samhain ritual affect would be altered by when it's cast. I mean the longer barbarians are left alone, they start spawning tougher ones. So perhaps if Samhain is cast later, the emerging creatures would be tougher. Plus perhaps it would spawn polar bear lairs that crank out really tough bears.

    My beef with Samhain is I've seen a few games where the AI tries to build it, completes it and then gets wiped out because while they where building it, the other races were expanding their empire. I mean a 1 city empire is a tempting target for anyone. I think the AI shouldn't be allowed to build it until they get 1 or 2 extra cities.

    Plus as a neo-pagan, they really need to change the name. Samhain was/is a end of harvest festival as well as the point of the year where it is believed that the veil between worlds was thinnest so you could speak with those who have passed on. Hardly something relating to ice. If you are going to call it something, call it the Fimbulvetr (Fimbulwinter) which was (from Wikipedia) "...three successive winters where snow comes in from all directions, without any intervening summer. During this time, there will be innumerable wars and brothers will kill brothers." Now that sounds more like what the ritual is all about summoning!
     
  17. Brokenbone

    Brokenbone Prince

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    If the Winterborn promotion gave you a chance of capturing frostlings on their defeat, that might be fun for both the Illians & Doviello. And uh, I guess Polar Bears could capture them too, so maybe don't tie it to Winterborn, ha ha.

    The idea of conscripting those little savages into the armies allied with Mulcarn's return makes decent sense to me. Frostlings, except for Mokka, are all stuck at a fairly low tier in terms of tech, so catching a few might be fun... without later seeing Frostling Crossbowmen and whatnot running around the place.

    Alternately, if Samhain gave the ability to build Frostlings, Frostling Archers etc., that might be fun as well. Again, hammers representing recruitment costs, beating the bush or snowdrifts as the case may be, enticing the little beggars to your cause, etc.
     
  18. orangelex44

    orangelex44 Partisan

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    I, actually, don't like pie but voted for that one anyway.

    Mostly, I think Samhain is fine because it serves a very important purpose: it ticks people off. Seriously, the AI needs to be able to do things that are totally, completely annoying to give a player a reason to build a colossal army for the sole purpose of hunting down the jerk that built Samhain, or casted Stasis, or Arcane Lacuna, or is 10% away from a religious victory while you've been working on the Alter.
     
  19. Imuratep

    Imuratep Cultist of the Old Ones

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    Germany
    I think the only purpose of Samhain is to make people that don't defend their cities good enough to do so as it has a certain signal effect though actually the other barbarians do much more. You can't start with a worker like in vanilla without having significant problems in defending your cities later on.
     
  20. SgtHydra

    SgtHydra Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2008
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    I'm just going to throw my two cents in:

    I like the concept of the spell, but everytime I play the Illians, I feel cheated by it.

    Not that the frostlings are attacking me, that's a fairly rare occurance. It's that spell itself doesn't really do much of anything.

    So it summons a few frostlings. Yeah. But it also let's everybody know that you are planning to go through the whole Illian ascension thing, so let's all gang up on you faster than we do Miriam in SMAC.

    If anything, the spell should give you the bonus of frostlings being summoned in the snow plots that the Temple of the White Hand spawn. Sortof like the ents in ancient forests.

    That is a better, more defensive bonus that gives you a pretty good reason to build it and the temples. Plus, it fits better with the idea that the Illians are trying to restart the Age of Ice.
     

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