San Pellegrino's Rogue State Strategy

[Hygro]

Interestingly enough, it was just before Military Tradition. Since the Aztecs North of them held their own, and the zulu Northeast had a strong envasion force, the Ottomans soon stopped expanding. It was only a matter of time the Arabs to the West got a harbor and traded for iron, thus giving them their Ansar dudes. Since the Persians had a giant force of Knights, which they ended up reserving for later since once near Turkey they would head north of me to Babylon, and then go down south... thus I had around 30 knights in my lands at all time.

It wasn't long before Istanbul and all her glory was sacked.

By the time the ottmans got Military Tradition it was too late for them.

 

[Aonghus]

Gr8 article, it helped alot.

 

[Renfield]

I use this strategy all the time. I had no idea it was called "rogue state" though.

A few things to add;

Some have mentioned it but it's important - prop your allies up. Give 'em techs and resources if they need it. An ally with tanks >> an ally with spearmen.

My own thought on this strategy was simple - destroy the other guy's infrastructure while building/maintaining my own. I make sure the rogue state loses production capability and keep him far enough away and off balance that the scales quickly swing in my favor. Damaging his infrastructure is of course easy. Besides your allies handing out a beat down, naval bombardment. Send several ships over to destroy all improvements in naval range. While his workers repair the damage his cities are negelcted and polluted. The naval bombardment also keeps your allies happy.

While everyone piles on the rogue state (I always do what it takes to make it a war every AI gets involved in) you should be able to crank up the production while everyone else's goes down.

You can use this strategy in democracy also. You have to be careful but it's very possible. Know the ins and outs of war weariness. War weariness is partially keyed off unit loss. Don't lose units, restrict yourself to naval bombardment - this doesn't put a lot of units at risk and you're "there" for your allies. Use your lux slider. Make sure you don't start the war. There are many ways to get the AI to declare war on you. Exit the war as soon as you can without breaking treaties if you start to see war weariness. Your allies will most likely have switched to a non-representative gov. and will beat on the rogue state awhile longer.

Let your allies take the land (unless you need resources or land). That means they bleed for it, not you. If you're comfortable with your empire start a world war and let the others fight like dogs for what will be corrupt cities while you grow your cities and gain techs.

 

[zerksees]

I want to say that this strategy is alive and well in C3C!

Last night I was playing my current emperor small map game with 4 AI rivals on C3C 1.15.

It was 610 AD and as Egypt I am in 4th place. I have about as many cities as the AI’s but they are producing more so they have more infrastructure. Strangely there had been only one war so far between France and America. The peace was killing me!

In 590 AD Lincoln used a galley to drop a spearman in Egyptian territory. I asked him to leave, but I knew this was trouble and dispatched a swordsman to deal with him if needed.

The next turn a stack of 6 medieval infantry and archers stepped into my territory, and a few straggler longbowmen showed up as well. I demanded the Americans leave or declare war. They chose war. Now I was slightly behind in tech so I had nothing to offer except gold. The Zulus signed MA for 320 gold, the Sumerians signed for 220 gold and 18 gpt, and the French signed for 10 gold and 24gpt.

I had a nice ringside seat to watch the mighty Sumerian army clash with American troops. Lots of losses on both sides. After a couple turns of this I sent my 6 knight stack in and took the city – but that is another strategy. America has been losing cities ever since.

What is better is that I am still in monarchy and they are all in republic. There will be no peace until they are all in anarchy – but that is yet another strategy!

 

[binyo66]

Originally posted by Renfield
I use this strategy all the time. I had no idea it was called "rogue state" though.

A few things to add;

Some have mentioned it but it's important - prop your allies up. Give 'em techs and resources if they need it. An ally with tanks >> an ally with spearmen.

My own thought on this strategy was simple - destroy the other guy's infrastructure while building/maintaining my own. I make sure the rogue state loses production capability and keep him far enough away and off balance that the scales quickly swing in my favor. Damaging his infrastructure is of course easy. Besides your allies handing out a beat down, naval bombardment. Send several ships over to destroy all improvements in naval range. While his workers repair the damage his cities are negelcted and polluted. The naval bombardment also keeps your allies happy.

While everyone piles on the rogue state (I always do what it takes to make it a war every AI gets involved in) you should be able to crank up the production while everyone else's goes down.

You can use this strategy in democracy also. You have to be careful but it's very possible. Know the ins and outs of war weariness. War weariness is partially keyed off unit loss. Don't lose units, restrict yourself to naval bombardment - this doesn't put a lot of units at risk and you're "there" for your allies. Use your lux slider. Make sure you don't start the war. There are many ways to get the AI to declare war on you. Exit the war as soon as you can without breaking treaties if you start to see war weariness. Your allies will most likely have switched to a non-representative gov. and will beat on the rogue state awhile longer.

Let your allies take the land (unless you need resources or land). That means they bleed for it, not you. If you're comfortable with your empire start a world war and let the others fight like dogs for what will be corrupt cities while you grow your cities and gain techs.

I found it the hard way, didnt know it either that it was called rogue state, and its working on any version of CivIII up to emperor level, and suit my style.

 

[SanPellegrino]

Originally posted by zerksees
I want to say that this strategy is alive and well in C3C!

good to hear and another nice game you play there.

I am still stuck with PtW, because I don't like some of the changes in conquests. I heard to goad the AI into war is more expensive now. But as you wrote it still seems possible, how much were the "prices" increased?

 

[Smellincoffee]

In one of my first Conquests games (testing the new expansion out), the nation of Korea became a "rogue state" when she declared war on India - and Ghandi got the rest of the world except for me to declare war on her. For three eras (middle, industrial, and modern) she held on. I wonder how?

Well, my privateers made sure no one from my continent sent troops "Over There". My explorers messed up the AI's reinforcements, because I kept fortifying them on chokepoints and such so they couldn't reach the front. When a Korea city was ill-defended and I saw enemy troops on the way (usually Indian, Chinese, or Mongolian), I could easily surround the city with explorers so they couldn't reach. I kept the back door open some ol' Wang Kong could get his people inside, though. I also kept Korea alive with trading and goods. The war was good for me, and I shot ahead. While they were beginning to use cavalry, I was building spaceship parts. They were *that* behind.

 

[binyo66]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino
good to hear and another nice game you play there.

I am still stuck with PtW, because I don't like some of the changes in conquests. I heard to goad the AI into war is more expensive now. But as you wrote it still seems possible, how much were the "prices" increased?

I have played several C3C games months back., but I dont like it either, so I forgot how much it costs for alliance. But my habis, is either luxs, techs or GPT. Mostly luxs.

 

[zerksees]

Originally posted by SanPellegrino
I heard to goad the AI into war is more expensive now. But as you wrote it still seems possible, how much were the "prices" increased?

This is a good question. I have played only a couple games of C3C so I am not an expert yet, but I actually felt this time it was cheaper to get the war started than in PTW.

I think this might be affected by the number of resources. C3C seems to have fewer resources the PTW. In PTW if you had dyes, usually there were bunches of them in the same vicinity, allowing you to trade them to all the other players. Now you might get one or two. This leaves each player with fewer goods to trade. With fewer goods to trade it is easier to pay off one AI to attack the other, since they are less likely to be trading with each other. In PTW I have had cases where I could offer 2-3 techs and gold and could not get one AI to attack another.

It could be other factors too, but I haven’t done a serious study of it to know for sure.

Last night I started a war against France in the same game. France had successfully knocked out all the Zulu cities (I gave one to Shaka in the tundra before he lost all his so he can vote for me in the UN vote), and I goaded them as much as I could but they would not declare war. I tried to offer Sumeria 3000 gold for a military alliance against France but they wouldn’t take it. I think in this case France acquired some resource in old Zulu territory that Sumeria needed, so they would not join me since they were paying gpt for it. So instead I signed MPP with them (at no cost!) and immediately declared war on France. I did not attack France. I just waited one turn and they came into my territory triggering the MPP and forcing Sumeria to declare war on France.