SANCTA Embassy & Intelligence

[cav scout]

General_W just joked in his videos thread about SANCTA being close to finishing the Great Library.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=306518&page=3

Is he trying to discourage other teams from going for it? Maybe he is trying to see if there will be competitition to get it. Should we reply back with a jest of our own? (as a veiled declaration that we are going for it)

 

[donsig]

Let's let it slide and stay under the Great Library radar.

 

[Kaleb]

I agree, let's not mention anything. More pressingly, SANCTA have replied!

Namaste, Donsig. The Ninjas salute the Great State of Kazakhstan. We are most pleased to have met your people and the Mighty Shogun has smiled upon your first letter to us. We wish to offer you two paths. You may follow either one with the blessing of the SAN.

The Way of Twilight: We agree that you'll declare war – and thus pass through our borders – with the eternal Shogun's personal guarantee of safety for your vessel. Then, as soon as your boat is past our borders, we will return to peace and continue negotiations of friendship.

The Way of Daylight: We agree to an Open Borders deal AND a trade of knowledge. Along with the lopsided benefit you'll receive from Open Borders, we will also offer you knowledge of Mysticism, Meditation, Priesthood, and Iron Working (581 beakers total) in exchange for the secret of Alphabet (448 beakers) as soon as you can discover it for trade.​

What say you? We eagerly await your reply. General_W, Daimyo of State, SANCTA. An old silent sea… A letter dispatched abroad, Diplomacy starts.

 

[Kaleb]

Well what do we make of that? It seems they shot for IW and not MC, or they are researching IW right now. We can see they have jungle in their area so that's understandable.

It is also interesting that they are pretty sure we are after Alphabet, which must mean they have guessed we are in touch with another Civ.

And they've got Meditation not Polytheism. We should pass this on to Cav

Finally, notice how they are offering us 140 worth of tech than they are asking for...

And if they are just asking for Alpha presumably they want it so they can trade other techs with Saturn??

 

[classical_hero]

To be honest, both proposals are not that good, since it means we will need to be trading with them. I think we should contact our alliance members to see how they would want us to respond.

 

[Kaleb]

If we are at war with them it also means they can't see what techs we have once we get Alphabet, and vice-versa. We might want to use a state of war to hide our tech progress at some point...

 

[Provolution]

Generally, we need to take the "Way of the Twilight" first, then we resume talks when we are out of their waters.

State we need Sailing first before an open border treaty becomes relevant. We should conclude all deals with Cav and MS first, then see what is left to negotiate with with Sancta.

I think we can trade writing and another tech for iron working, if the rest of the team and our allies agrees to this.

 

[donsig]

Well, we don't want to agree to a tech trade. We don't want SANCTA to know we already have a deal in the works. Technical question: Will they know we have alphabet once we learn it? Another question: How important is it to continue exploring with the work boat?

 

[Sommerswerd]

At first glance, I am totally against giving them Alpha... at any price. However...

I think the best course is to tell our allies what SANCTA's offer is. Remember... we can still trade with SANCTA, we just need our allies' permission / approval. I think that our allies would welcome a trade with SANCTA if it was in their best interest. For example, I think everyone in the alliance would love to get IW faster, especially if SANCTA has it right now.

But that's the million dollar question isn't it. Do they have it already? Or:
1. Are they in a secret agreement with MS to trade for it once MS gets it? MS could be "doubling their clam shells"
2. Are they several turns away from getting it? (in which case it might be faster to just wait for MS to get it)
3. Just trying to get us to confirm we have Alpha?
4. Something else I (we) have not thought of?

I think it is pretty likely that SANCTA have met someone else, and they need Alpha to make trades.

 

[Sullla]

Well, well. I have to say, now the game is really starting to get interesting. Good luck.

*goes back to muching popcorn*

 

[Kaleb]

lol @ Sulla

I think SANCTA are guessing we are after Alphabet and have a hunch we are in talks with Cav. If they are in talks with someone else it will most likely be Saturn, and they will be the ones after Alphabet.

Saturn only just teched a couple of turn ago so if they are going for Alpha now they are probably around 8 or 9 turns away, hence SANCTA will be keen on getting it from us to help them trade quicker with Saturn. And hence why we shouldn't let them have it!!

MS are also already teching IW for the same reasons SANCTA will be. We would get IW faster from SANCTA but why not wait and get it from MS?

 

[classical_hero]

If we really want, we could go for extortion and get more techs off them for Alphabet, since they want it so bad.

 

[Kaleb]

We could ask them for Metal Casting instead to see if they are interested. We could even mention we aren't interested in getting those techs from them (hinting we can get it from elsewhere)

 

[donsig]

I think the best thing to do is stall by making a counter-proposal that's heavy enough in our favor that they won't accept it. Are we willing to keep our boat treading water?

Here's a proposed reply:

Hey Ninjas,

The world is not just black and white. There must be other ways between the paths you see. Your Way of Daylight is interesting but iron working is no good to us unless we have the means to forge the worked iron into those things we desire. Would you consider offering metal casting along with the other secrets?

We would like to continue exploring but prefer to do so with an open borders agreement. Would you accept such an agreement no while we continue to discuss trading secrets?

donsig
Foreign Minister of Kazakhstan

I can't keep up the Borat impression. Anyway, I'm not sure what direction the team wants to go here. It seems there are some who want the phoney war.

 

[Kaleb]

oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that SANCTA are offering us Mysticism...

And if they are asking for Alphabet does that mean they have Writing already? if so they chould already be half way towards getting CoL!

We should look at MC in exchange for Alphabet and see what they say, plus we should put some wording around when they expect this trade to happen?

 

[donsig]

We should look at MC in exchange for Alphabet and see what they say, plus we should put some wording around when they expect this trade to happen?

Yes, let's ask about timing:

Hey Ninjas,

The world is not just black and white. There must be other ways between the paths you see. Your Way of Daylight is interesting but iron working is no good to us unless we have the means to forge the worked iron into those things we desire. Would you consider offering metal casting along with the other secrets? When do you think you's be ready to make a trade (assuming we can agree on terms)?

We would like to continue exploring but prefer to do so with an open borders agreement. Would you accept such an agreement no while we continue to discuss trading secrets?

donsig
Foreign Minister of Kazakhstan

 

[Kaleb]

Ok how about:

Greetings Ninja men,

We like multiple choice, very nice. But it give us tricky decision to make. In meantime our boat go in little circles looking for clams.

First thing, we not needing some of the technologies you offer us. Much more interesting is knowledge of how to make metal objects so we can begin to make great statue of our wonderful leader. You give this us instead?

Right now, we don't have knowldege of this Alphabet way of which you speak. When do your wise men want do such a trade anyway?

We have knowledge of writing, but you need to have also if we give you alphabet, no? You clever and know how to write already?

Our ship sail far to reach you, maybe knowledge of proper ships can make benefit our two glorious nations. Trade good. Bring people close together and make good money for both.

In meantime, if we go way of twilight will it be long before we can make peace and continue our friend discussions about sharing knowledge?

donsig

 

[donsig]

I like it. Goes great with your avatar, too.

 

[Kaleb]

I've spoken with Niklas a bit about this, he agrees with our suggestion of asking for MC in exchange for Alphabet. We should try and arrange this soon though, before SANCTA realise we'll end up giving MC to the rest of TTA!

 

[donsig]

My guess is SANCTA will try to add a no further trading clause. Maybe they wouldn't since they will want to trade alphabet to Saturn.