I am interested in Sanctas offer but I still think we get more from following through with Team Cav. Going with Sancta Spoiler : Sanctas offer is TKY for free and guaranteed elimination of Cavs stacks. If we follow up we could take a few Cav cities but how far can we really go? I think we could take the cell of cities East of TKY but probably could not push much further than before Cav could whip a monster defensive stack. Sancta could harass Cavs coast but any taken cities will have to be raised as they could not realistically be defended. It also opens up our southern coast which would be very vulnerable to an attack by Team Cav. At the end of the day Sancta will only lose a small portion of their massive production advantage and we will face an ugly war with Cav. Sancta can provide some help in this war but ultimately we will do most of the fighting. Cav will take a major hit but we wont be able to roll them. At this point, I see Santca as the big winner as they can continue developing while Cav and us get bogged down in a long war and neglect infrastructure. What about this indicates sancta would become like a vassal not much in my mind. If we do go down this path we might want some sort of agreement that allows us to station units close to marginally defended Sancta cities for a significant period of time. Essentially this allow us to hold a gun to Sancta head so that they cant break the treaty down the line. I am very worried about this as if we are at war with Cav our rear will be undefended. Going with Cav Spoiler : If we continue attacking Sancta with Team Cav, we stand a very good chance of gaining the cell of cities including TKY and DT. And if Sancta is being honest about their defensive capabilities we could possibly push even further and potentially grab the huge Olli city and Phoenix. The fact is we could make the same offer that is currently on the table to Sancta a few turns down the line. We backstab Cav in exchange for Sancta essentially becoming a vassal. We end up with more cities and a more reliable (ie weaker) vassal. The problem of course is keeping good enough relations with Sancta as we move forward with Cav. What to say to Sancta? Spoiler : Cav scout has done great negotiating and I recommend a chat along these lines. Our team likes the general outline of your realignment, but we need to do a lot of debate before we have anything fully set in stone. Some naysayers have also popped up and we allow a very deliberative process no war czars in Kazakhstan sadly. Either way, it sounds like you are abandoning Zero anyway. So if we end up not going down this path, the next turn pretty much plays out the same way. We will continue to bombard Phoenix for the sake of keeping up appearances should any unknown Cav spies be lurking. For your info we considered trying to coordinate a naval assault, but it would be pretty hard to pull off now that you have rifles. Another point to discuss is resource exchanges. What could Sancta offer? If we cut ties with Cav we will have a lot of unhappiness. In light of Sanctas messages it seems that they have overinflated our military capacity. Our biggest limiting factor which I do not think the other teams are that aware of is that we have far less ability to draft units. We have a lot coming in the next few turns but in the long term we cant keep it up like Sancta and Cav. Also our production is anemic and they can produce units much faster than we can. Right now we have a lot of power and we are very close to the front line. But imagine 20 turns from now when we have a battle hardened core of 30 some redcoats but we face an opposing army of well over 60 units. That will get ugly fast. We want this war to be short and sweet and we want Cav and Sancta to suffer as much as possible. A long conflict means we lose.