Sanguivorant's IM A NOOB Walkthrough

[Sanguivorant]

Settling on resources is bad, got it. Sorry, it's just that I see the AIs do it frequently (Even on noble), and I figured it was a good thing to do to capture resources quickly. Then I figured out that I was in no rush. I'll try to get back to before this happened.

Also, I'll have a great scientist pop out in a couple of turns. What should I do with it?

Alternative update:

I went back and fixed some things. It is still turn 105 from where I left off:

Spoiler :

Coventry is now NW of the Iron resource, as suggested.

Spoiler :

The game suggests I settle east from the sheep, but I want to settle the coast SW from the clams. What is the better choice?

Spoiler :

This is the world as of now. Nott is just building warriors to garrison some of my cities, then it will switch to something else.

Spoiler :

The tech tree. Archery, Polytheism and another tech beside it aren't visible on here, but I have not researched them yet. Some AIs are willing to hand them to me if I give them alphabet.

 

[Toxicc]

Settling on resources isn't bad all the time. Building on plains ivory and riverside wine tiles are common moves when you want to get a little more out of your base city square. However, you don't gain anything from settling on grass iron, so that was a misplay that you now know to correct.

As for your scientist, what you should do with it depends on what you need. If you're running your research slider at a high percentage (which I believe you currently are), building an academy in your current or future best research site is best. If you're having to devote your slider more to money just to stay afloat, settling it in your best research city will help you more immediately than an academy. Bulbing techs can give you a trade chip or speed you along your current research path, but its use depends on the specific tech that can be bulbed. You shouldn't use your first GScientist on a golden age as its other uses will be more immediately beneficial.

 

[vandermerwe]

I'd use the great scientist to build an academy. Probably in York, which is your best science city just now. Once you can chain irrigate across from Nottingham, London might well become better if you use the surplus food to run scientists, although it'd be better to use it to feed the production tiles. The bulb option will be Compass, which you'll need on this map at some point, but is a bit of a waste of a GS tbh.

Calendar and Code of Laws are the obvious next 2 techs. Beyond that you'll need Civil Service soon, as much for the chain irrigation (not much fresh water in your lands) as for switching into Bureaucracy.

As Kaytie said, no point at all in adopting Judaism. What's interesting, though, is that it has spread to you before Buddhism (which Darius has, although not in his border cities). Whoever founded Judaism isn't someone you've met yet, as none of them seem to have researched monotheism, but they're probably not that far away.

 

[Sanguivorant]

I just have a small question.
Victoria is financial, so ideally I should be running a cottage economy, right?
Why is advice generally turning towards making a specialist economy?
Is there a general rule on this?

 

[Toxicc]

You don't have a lot of rivers to make the best use of cottages, and the binary cottage economy/specialist economy system is basically obsoleted. You should be specializing each city to what it is best suited for, which in this case seems to be specialists and production since you're largely lacking in commerce resources and rivers.

 

[lymond]

Settling on resources isn't bad all the time.

Absolutely. There are many times you can settle on a resource, Sang. There are two main reasons to do so a) get out early rush quicker b) get the innate tile bonus in the city center early. Another common and generally good thing to do is settle on resources when their yields are nerfed by the land type. For instance, desert copper or iron. Still with the idea of settling a good city at the same time, but desert resources are not as good yield wise.

As for AIs, they do stupid things a lot, but probably settle on a resource when they don't truly know it is there, although they basically do.

As for center city tile yield, note that what you see is what you get. If you see 2 hammers on a tile like settling on a plains hill or plains elephants, you will get 2H in you city center tile as opposed to the usual 1H. It's a nice early boost and often folks will move a settler to get this bonus as long as it doesn't totally compromise a good capital, i.e, food.

However, having full knowledge of a great resource tile yield like grass iron and then settling on it is generally never a good idea except in extreme situations of getting up a fast rush.

 

[lymond]

The game suggests I settle east from the sheep, but I want to settle the coast SW from the clams. What is the better choice?

You can't go wrong really either way, but since the suggested spot (which I always ignore, i.e, I settle where i think is best) does have immediate food - sheep - I would settle there since that city grabs every tile on the island and I only see it as a 1 city island, although technically you could fit another crap city on the island. Just get a worker there asap to work the sheep and chop a Monument...or 1pop whip the Mon.

You don't have a lot of rivers to make the best use of cottages, and the binary cottage economy/specialist economy system is basically obsoleted. You should be specializing each city to what it is best suited for, which in this case seems to be specialists and production since you're largely lacking in commerce resources and rivers.

I approve this message You want to play what the land gives you. It's always good to keep your leader traits in mind, but you always play the map first. You will get a better feel for this as you gain experience. It doesn't necessarily mean you won't be building cottages in some cities, but I would not be worrying about SE vs CE at this point. You have food and production and can run scientists. that is good for now. (this has been a public service announcement)

Generally I advise creating an academy, usually in your Cap, but your cap is never going to be a great science city. York is okay for boosting the scientists you are running, or Hastings with the gems. Another good play is ask yourself what will be your eventually research hub and settle the scientist there first, if it gives more immediate beakers than the academy boost, then follow up with an academy when your second GS pops.

You do want to get another city running 2 scientist. Probably London and maybe Canterbury later. York should keep 2 scientists running always.

 

[lymond]

I see no reason to trade techs with the AIs at present. If Maths had been available then maybe, but you certainly won't trade alpha for archery and there is no reason to give the AIs alpha when you have a monopoly on it. (though you do need to meet all the AIs).

You have a very strong tech position right now and doing a great job. Roos probably got MC from Oracle, but that is no biggy. You are going to blow these AIs away. Don't give them any advantage. You can trade techs later as they become older or lose their monopoly to backfill some techs here and there or grab up chunks of gold.

Still not sure what happened to your scouting workboat that was heading west along the coast. You would have met all AIs by now and have a good map.

I think your next tech goal is to increase happiness so that you can grow your cities. Calendar would be good or Monarchy. (Both of these techs are AI priority techs but, again, this is Noble, so sometimes you have to just self-tech them as opposed to setting up tech trades for them) Then move on to Civil Service. You may get Conf from Code of Laws on the way.

You might want to start thinking about removing Darius from existence in the near future.

edit: Just want to make a general comment that you are doing a great job here And I don't just mean playing the game, but running this shadow/learner game and being patient. I would like to see a bit more interaction and discourse from you, but otherwise you are doing fantastic.

 

[KaytieKat]

Hi

I would like to add when I saw that city settled on the resource it wouldnt have been my choice. However I didnt think it would be a game changer and in addition for reasons mentioned by lymond and others to settle resorces--settling on top of your ONLY strategic metal resource to make it pillage/spy/negative event/proof isnt necessisarily a bad thing. Especially if its gonna be awhile b4 you go out and conquer other cities to get more. Although I do think the danger would have been neglible in this case being smack dap in middle of empire, where barbies couldnt get to it even w/o great wall and darius isnt like sitting bull or giggles who love running spies and any other ai would have to get a spy all the way through darius's empire to get to yours.

But even if you hadnt of gane back to redo it I dont think it would have impacted outcome of the game much. Sometimes you can over do playing it safe but better safe than sorry can also be a good motto at times. Just try to think about what you gain/lose with every choice you make and then play accordingly once you make your choice.

Kaytie

 

[Sanguivorant]

Is there a rule on double posting in these threads, or is that acceptable?

Either way, thank-you for the compliments =). Though I'm not sure how to be more interactive.

I think I discovered all the AIs available, with the newest one being Ragnar. Ragnar and Darius were having a war during my last update, and Ragnar asked me to help him out. I said no, because I do not have a standing army.

The work boat you were talking about was either deployed on a fish resource, or I made it sleep near one that I can collect soon. Not sure if that's a good idea or not.

The next tech I intended to get before was construction for the colosseum, because one of my cities were unhappy regardless of being garrisoned and supplied with a luxury resource. However, I think calendar is a good tech, so my workers can have more turns of productive work.

Okay, so here are my new plans:

-Get a library up in Canterbury, and with the fish resource connected, maybe get some specialists.
-After lighhtouse in London, get a library and maybe add a scientist or two.
-build that island city east of sheep, get a worker there to improve, and start a monument for the clam.
-Remove jungle and complete mines near Covent.
-Garrison at least a warrior in all ungarrisoned cities(Which is to be three).
-Create a settler in Nottingham, and send it to the wheat/cow city (Which has a lot of forests). Also create a barracks there, and start training axemen/spearmen.
-Tech calendar in build plantations as needed.
-Maybe start building spies in York.
-Commit some espionage points towards Darius.

I won't update until this list is examined by someone.

 

[lymond]

I think Sang just told me to shut my big fat trap

Plan sounds great. No, coliseums are not necessary - waste of hammers except for Ball Courts or Gardens, or much later if you really need them.. Once you get Calendar or Monarchy, unhappiness will be a thing of the past.

Little tip on City micro...try to check your cities frequently in the early game. Make tile adjustments that are best for that turn. For instance, it's fine that Nottingham switch to 2F tiles for a bit to get some growth, but this turn it can grow and still work the ivory, which gives you more hammers and commerce this turn. Yeah, your unit will finish regardless, but you will still get hammer overflow in the next build and any commerce is better. (All these advantages/boosts really pay off early and get more important as you move up levels)

As mentioned early, I would rarely whip London. I would adjust it presently to work ivory and mine, even at stalled growth, to get the Lighthouse in 3 turns. Then adjust tiles back for growth. Then a library.

Putting EP focus on Darius is fine, but I would do this first thing when I met him. I think I wrote something on that earlier. Big techers or neighbors are always good targets. (Don't raise your EP slider though) If you do this, you can accumulate some nice EPs passively over time that will allow you to steal a tech or cause a city revolt when at war. Choose wisely.

I would not build spies unless you have a use for them or you are trying to counteract an aggressive neighbor by parking them in your city (this lessens the chance of enemy spy missions). I don't think you are in any danger.

The work boat you were talking about was either deployed on a fish resource, or I made it sleep near one that I can collect soon. Not sure if that's a good idea or not.

This is an example of being more interactive I would have have set that workboat on auto-explore and then forget about it.

 

[Chuwe3y]

Settle on resources is good in a way as its always connected and spread throughout ur city. But if its the only 1 not sure if that's a good idea. In my game I ran farms all over that area connecting to my capital. Financials help but u don't really need to build cottages. Farms and draft

 

[Sanguivorant]

Oh, I did not mean to give off that vibe Sorry.

Update:

Spoiler :

Here is a screenshot of the mainland. Not much difference other than connecting a good amount of those plantation resources. There's one spice resource not in my borders, so I should probably build a monument in my iron city.
Meanwhile, I can build the Great Lighthouse in 15 turns, even less if I chop a forest. I hope I can get it, but if I can't, then the extra money should help me with my teching.

Spoiler :

Here are the two new cities, Warwick and Newcastle. I got the sheep in Warwick, and mining the hill. Meanwhile, Newcastle has one worker that will come and improve the wheat. Both are building monuments for obvious reasons.

Spoiler :

I have a settler waiting in London, but I need to find a new location for a city first. I've noted two places that could "Potentially" be city sites. I'm going to have to get opinions on this one.

Spoiler :

My tech tree, for those who would like to examine it.

 

[vandermerwe]

Just to echo Lymond's comment - really enjoying this thread, great stuff for a self-confessed noob No apologies necessary.

All looking reasonably good. You've got spices within your borders already (2W 1N of Coventry) so no rush to pick up the second one.

On new cities, the site between the banana and rice looks good, even with a couple of mountains. Would suit the Moai Statues well. Newcastle may be a bit stuck for food with only plains wheat & cow... chain irrigation (from Nottingham) is your friend once again.

I also played your save (with Coventry in its original position on the iron) until about 1200AD, and...

Spoiler :

The game was pretty much won by then with a maceman / treb / war elephant combo. 4 civs vassaled; Roosevelt holding out but not for long. Probably helped to roll over the 2 more peaceful civs (Darius & Mansa) first for unit experience before tackling a couple of warmongers. Either way London, Nottingham, Hastings and the new city site I mentioned above make strong production cities once you feed them properly; York and Canterbury likewise make good GP farms. Economy went to bits with an army that size...slider at 0-10% for much of the time, but GSs and gold from captured cities kept the research ticking over enough.

 

[Chuwe3y]

There's an area with rice/banana that should be settle or fogbust cuz it looks like a gateway to barbs. U miss the most early important tech of all, Aesthetic (Ai rarely research this) which can be traded to Ais for lower techs including IW and peace points.

@Vandermerwe

Spoiler :

Never tried macemens/elephants war before, I think this is what I'm missing during my gameplay. But usually I rush in the beginning then economy almost crash and I keep beelining lib for nationalism and calvary.

Is medieval warfare worth the time and resources?
I rarely play a game where I use medieval units (macemens,trebs, knights, longbow) because I feel that they are a waste when u can get calvary sooner. Usually in the beginning I use HAs, then Cavalry and I probably won't meet modern era. Another reason is HAs can take archer cities without cats, and cavalry for longbow. Hmm I think I should focus my strat more on siege unit.

 

[Sanguivorant]

Thanks for the comments everyone =). I didn't think I would get this much support.
And offence non-taken, Vandermerwe. No one raises in skill/expertise until they have realized that they have none of it to start out with. There is no better ignorance than believing you've reached a plateau and you can embrace it with arrogance. One must humble him-self to strive for success. [/words of wisdom]

Back to the game. I realize that I am running out of places to put cities in, and a great portion of my cities have at least the resources improved. I will eventually have a play a larger military role, which ultimately means I'll have to push through Darius, take a few cities or so, or maybe his entire civilization. This is where the fun conversations start.

Of course, attacking Darius will lead me to a conflict with Mansa, so I might need to find a way to secure this whole continent. If you can see from the map picture above, Mansa musa is South-east. I will have to either launch a naval mission (Which I do not want to do) or take out Darius to get to him.

I'm thinking after civil service, I go for construction/machinery, and perhaps metal casting for extra production. Either way, I should have a good offence force in two updates. Could anyone recommend anything on military? Based on my situation, when is the best time to push south?

 

[vandermerwe]

@Vandermerwe

Is medieval warfare worth the time and resources?
I rarely play a game where I use medieval units (macemens,trebs, knights, longbow) because I feel that they are a waste when u can get calvary sooner. Usually in the beginning I use HAs, then Cavalry and I probably won't meet modern era. Another reason is HAs can take archer cities without cats, and cavalry for longbow. Hmm I think I should focus my strat more on siege unit.

Got to say I'm keen on medieval warfare, if only because my personal benchmark on Noble is to win without needing gunpowder. The maces/trebs/phants thing is a particular favourite as they complement each other well:
- Siege is always essential to any campaign IMO, particularly in this period as fortified longbows are very hard to shift without it. But trebs, with their 100% city attack bonus, are great at softening up even CG-promoted longbows; they're also a cheap upgrade to cannons if & when the time comes.
- CR2/3 maces will chew up most defenders easily if you attack with a couple of trebs first. Unlike HAs or cavalry they can take defensive bonuses too ofc. And if it does come to upgrading, you get riflemen with CR promotions which aren't normally available. CR3 rifles are very powerful even in the modern era...
- War elephants are also strong if promoted; the bonus vs mounted will protect the trebs from anything up to and beyond knights (which I don't normally bother with unless I can get Guilds in a cheap trade or peace deal; it's a bit off the optimal tech path). Your maces can handle any spearmen or pikemen which would otherwise be a problem for the phants.
So all in all it's a pretty well-balanced combination.

I did think about waiting for cuirassiers, but the temptation to spew out hordes of maces / phants / trebs from all those high-production cities was just too strong. Plus...

Spoiler :

...there's no horse anywhere in sight at all. IIRC there's some way down south, but nothing that was worth trying to capture. Really odd.

Edit: seems I've co-incidentally answered Sanguivorant's Q. about medieval war. Hope it's some use - the techs you need are indeed construction, machinery and metal casting (and then engineering if you want trebs rather than catapults, which I'd recommend).

 

[Sanguivorant]

Whoops, sorry. Mistaken double post.

 

[CreeDakota]

any food by the gold at all? If not definetly go for rice banana first. Your cities seem small and since you just got calender you likley don't need the gold happy just yet.

Techwise I think civil service should be your next target..mainly for chain irrigation which many cities need.

I would invest at least a little bit more in scouting. A workboat or galley onto auto plus don't you have an old scout sitting around?

At this point the game hinges on Diplomacy in my opinion. Please include some diploacy info in your next update (religious blocks worst enemy etc).

 

[Sanguivorant]

No, no food resource by the gold at all as far as I can remember.

A scouting workboat stopped at Mansa Musa, because we don't have open borders activated. I should perhaps activate open borders so that I can continue scouting that part. I do have a scout sitting around, was supposed to be a fog buster, but I settled where he was. I'll probably have him fog bust the banana rice location, because it looks alright.

I know it's hard to tell right now, but how do you suggest I win diplomatically? All I remember so far is that all AIs are cautious with me, exception to Darius, who is pleased. If I attack Darius, I might lose Mansa musa as a potential ally.