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Saturn Embassy & Intelligence

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Kaleb, Mar 9, 2009.

  1. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    See how chats can give the wrong impression? Here's what was said"

    All I did was say we wanted to know how they felt about adding Saturn to the alliance. I didn't say we were keen on the idea.

    It would be great if the Mad Ones attacked Saturn. That would slow S&S's tech rate and also put SANCTA in the position of having to decide whether or not to go to Saturn's aid thus weakening their own position around (what used to be) Angle.
     
  2. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

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    Oups, had completely forgotten about that! So in fact we have given them 2 techs for only archery so far?
     
  3. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    That's exactly what has happened. The fact that they have traded feudalism to SANCTA and not to us (when we are at war with SANCTA) quite clearly shows they (Saturn) have already chosen sides.
     
  4. Bolkonski

    Bolkonski Prince Bolkonsky

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    That is my reading of the situation.
     
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    That's your chat that allegedly gave the wrong impression, Donsig, not mine. Your attemt to use your botched chat as an example of why Ishould not chat is laughable:lol:

    Our game/chances of winning have not been harmed ONE Bit by my ONE chat with Lord Parkin. Plus I already posted that chatlog, so why are you still complaining about it? You are attempting to create a demigogue as usual with all this unnecessary blustering.

    Why can't you get off the chat issue and focus on how to pry Feudalism from Saturn, or at least draw them away from SANCTA? This petty argument between the two of us accomplishes nothing. Why can you just not accept that you just are not going to get your way this one time?

    I repeat that a "Don't trust Sommers" message is foolish and spiteful. Since they already know that chat is not binding, The only thing such a note will convey is that "Sommers is the ONLY one that wants to be friends with you, the rest of the team DONT want to be friends." Saturn can read between the lines they know that there would be no other reason to Officially disavow someone. Also, since they know chat is not binding, a Official note about it insults their intelligence.

    Donsig your attepts to get our diplo "under control" are no longer necessary. You resigned as Foreign Minister so you don't need to "control" anything. You can chat with Niklas (or anyone else) all you want as far as I am concerned... So can everyone else. All we need to do is agree on the OFFICIAL letter we send. Chatting is a useful tool to keep up relations. That is why SANCTA was able to get Saturn to withold tech. SANCTA was keeping the chat lines open and we were trying to shut them down.
     
  6. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    don't worry, I clarified our position in my reply to Morgan:

    and Morgan's reply:

     
  7. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Sorry, posted in wrong thread. Have moved this post to the correct thread.
     
  8. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Dude, my chat was not botched. What I said was quite clear yet KingMorgan read into it something additional that was not there. What is laughable is the fact that you miss my points entirely and insist on acting in such a juvenile way. One point is not what you say in the chats, nor is it even how what you say is interpreted by the other teams. The point is that we need a record of what you say so any misunderstandings can be quickly and painlessly resolved. I've already said I don't mind if you or anyone else on the team chats with other teams as long as chat logs are posted for all of us to see. It is not your chatting that causes the controversy between us, it is your refusal to disclose what you have said in them.

    It's not about whether your actions enhance or diminish our chances to win. It's about you taking matters into your own hands without including the rest of your team mates in on your negotiations. I have already thanked you for posting the chat log with Lord Parkin. But you haven't re-posted the Memphus chat log(s?). You've been talking to the team that declared war on us and you refuse to share what you've sad. This is inexcusable.

    For one thing, I don't see prying feudalism from Saturn as all that important. I feel they owe it to us and should give it to us but I don't see us losing the game if they don't. I'd like to draw Saturn away from SANCTA but I'm not about to risk giving them techs they can pass on to SANCTA. As for accepting that I will not "get my way on this one", if you do not post the chat logs then I will do everything I can to ensure the others teams do not see any benefit in chatting with you. I've got no problem being just as juvenile as you and having my own chats with other teams. The difference between us is I'm man enough to post what I tell the other teams.

    I resigned as foreign minister, I did not resign from the team. If our new foreign policy mechanism is to consist of team members chatting with other teams whenever they want then I have just as much right to chat with Lord Parkin and Memphus as you or any other team member. If we play by your rules I can also say whatever I want and not tell the team what I've said, because, hey, it won't be official.

    You do not have to convince me that chatting is useful any more than you had to convince me polls are useful. We're not arguing about whether chats are useful. We're arguing about whether any of us can chat with other teams and not share what is said.

    Now that that's out of my system, let's get on with the business of this thread. We have two proposed notes to send to Saturn. I intend to post a poll this evening so the team can decide which note (if either) to send. Sommers, please post the version of your proposed note that you want included in the poll. If you don't I will use the last version you submitted. I will also include any other notes anyone wants to propose, as well as an option to send no note at this time. I'll post the poll at 9 pm my time - about five and a quarter hours from now.
     
  9. Bolkonski

    Bolkonski Prince Bolkonsky

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    I think I would prefer that a team member to post a chatlog if other members of the team ask for it. To do otherwise seems to me problematic. Let's have openness and transparency. Remember there is much to learn from others and also, from our own mistakes.
     
  10. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I agree it is better to post than not to post.

    Once posted people can argue about how to interpret - but without being posted it is impossible to know what is really being discussed.
     
  11. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    I also agree that conversations with other teams about the game should be shared and freely discussed here in our forum. To do otherwise is poor form and is contrary to what the MTDG is all about.
     
  12. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I would not inform Saturn of our plan. They may join us but if they do it will not help too much. A bigger is is that they tell Sancta.
     
  13. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    FYI - Saturn now are back to having 5 cities.
     
  14. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    So they recaptured the one they lost to barbarians?
     
  15. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Saturn have switched to Bureaucracy and Caste System
     
  16. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Gold in their capitol and a GP farm or two elsewhere. It would be nice if MS had a military to threaten Saturn. But that does not appear to be the case.
     
  17. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    A single Saturn Immortal just showed up on our border NW of Taraz, 2W of Zero IIRC. Zero Currently has a wall, and is Garrisoned by 4 units... A longbow with lvl3 city defense, a Xbow a spear and a Cata IIRC.

    Maybe we should send a Spy to check whether there are more Saturn units lurking outside our view.
     
  18. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Interesting – could it be another throwaway unit like the chariot Sancta sacrificed earlier. I’d like to send a spy over – but with the espionage balance so close right now I am wary of losing our spy. I think we should hold back.

    Either way we shoudl be able to tell from the demographics if Saturn or Santca has built up a major army.
     
  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Current Military related Demographics:

    Mfg Goods: Kaz- 102, Rival Best (prob SANCTA 213), Avg 149, Worst 54, Rank 4
    Soldiers: Kaz- 301000, Rival Best 379000, Avg 285750, Worst 200000, Rank 4
    Population: Kaz- 2899000, Rival Best 8642000, Avg 6544250, Worst 2501000, Rank 4

    Our Espy Ratio with Saturn = 32/12 in favor of Saturn BTW
     
  20. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Do we have OB with them? We should close it to stop their Immortal spying on us.
     

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