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Savage banned from UK for.........

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Death_Machine, May 6, 2009.

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What is your reaction to Savage being banned from the UK?

  1. Speech should not be punished.

    47 vote(s)
    32.6%
  2. He deserves to be banned.

    28 vote(s)
    19.4%
  3. Who is Mike Savage?

    39 vote(s)
    27.1%
  4. I don't give a damn.

    30 vote(s)
    20.8%
  1. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    Let's not be caricatural Formal, OK :D and let's forget this specific case:

    Do you think free speech should also allow people to specifcally call for the death of the Jews? should I be permitted tomorrow to publish a book calling for the completion of the final solution, the extermination of all Muslims or the deprtation of all white blue eyed people from France back to the Caucassus?
     
  2. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Yes. It is certainly allowed in this country, and I would contend any other country that actually has freedom of speech.

    http://sandiego.indymedia.org/en/2005/06/109408.shtml

    Yes. Books and articles by Christians and Jews that claim that Islam teaches hatred of all infidels are an excellent example. While most of the books do not call for the extermination of all Muslims and the eradication of Islam as a viable religion, that is obviously the basic tenet behind their message.

     
  3. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    For historical reasons (ie WWII and The Shoa basically), many people in Europe do not hold those view, the vast majority don't. They do value free speech nevertheless. A similar difference may be seen in the gun control laws differences between the USA and Europe. European (most of them) find the attachement of American to the right to own guns weird at best, psychotic very often. they consider this right to be counterproductive. Giving nazi the right to call for the death of the Jews is similarily seen as being stupid at best, dangerous more often. Now Western Europe is not North Korea and the US are not Somalia (in regards to amount of weapons that us americans posses). that means, for me, that the two systems aren't that bad after all.

    Edit : Since you edited your post, I honestly do not think those two Tshirt would be allowed in France, they may even cost you a fine. They for sure would trigger a legal case
     
  4. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Our Second Amendment shows our First Amendment is a crock? Nice strawman...

     
  5. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    To have an opinion is OK, regardless of what it is, but the problem comes when you act on it. Hate-speak books wouldn't last long, save for Mein Kampf which is history, since people would be offended.
     
  6. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Once again, Savage has likely never acted on anything. There certainly isn't any proof of it.
     
  7. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    sorry but what are the first and second amendement?
     
  8. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    Trying to get other people to act on your behalf counts, really.
     
  9. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

    Ironically, he has apparently done nothing "to get other people to act", especially in your own country. You just don't like what his opinions are, and you want to try to stifle them because you think they might be dangerous.

    Once again, that isn't freedom of speech. It is intolerance and pre-crime.
     
  10. Flying Pig

    Flying Pig Utrinque Paratus

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    Nobody in the world claims to allow anyone to say anything. We have standards - of course it's intolerance, we don't tolerate people who discriminate against people for no reason.
     
  11. HannibalBarka

    HannibalBarka We are Free

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    no that is not what I wanted to say, sorry if I wasn't clear. what i am saying is this:

    The US and Europe have two differnet views on free speech, and they are both working quite correctly (unless you consider Europe to be a dictatorship ?!!!), hense the two ways of implementing free speech are maybe different but they are both working fine.

    Now concerning gun control, again the US and Europe have different laws concerning guns, and both are working fine, so the two laws aren't that bad after all.

    I really don't see why is it so vital to let people calling for the extermination of other people speak freely? what's the point? do you think it is the first step towards dictatorship?
    And second, that is what european people voted for, why should we change a law against the people's will? european do not want american style free speech, should we force them to :lol:
     
  12. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    It's called spreading democracy!
     
  13. bigfatron

    bigfatron Emperor

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    Are you seriously trying to way that the UK is not democratic?

    Please, get over yourself - the America way is not a bad way, but it is not the only way as you seem to think...
    BFR
     
  14. Dachs

    Dachs Hero of the Soviet Union

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    You don't recognize one of your own, mocking America?
     
  15. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust New Englander

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    :lol:

    To be fair though, with all these liberals who hate America in power nowadays, it's an easy mistake to make :D
     
  16. Death_Machine

    Death_Machine Slaytanic Warrior

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    I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

    ~ Voltaire
     
  17. Gigaz

    Gigaz civoholic

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    In America, would I commit a crime if I call for the death of a certain man?

    The attachment shows an election ad from Germany, 1918 or 1919. I'm quite sure that it was legal in that time.

    Translation:

    workers, citizen!
    The nation is close to doom.
    Save it!
    It's not endangered from outside, but from inside:
    From the Spartacus-group.
    Beat its leaders to death!
    Kill Liebknecht!
    Then you'll have peace, work and bread.
    The Front-soldiers

    Liebknecht, one of the communist leaders, was murdered few days later.

    In my opinion, calling for the death or for hate on people will seriously endanger their safety.
     

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  18. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Trying to overthrow your government is not good for your continuing health in just about any society; quite apart from an incitement to hatred or death considering the circumstances.
     
  19. aelf

    aelf Ashen One

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    Problem is when you already have enough people thinking like they do. And why allow things to get to that state in the first place?
     
  20. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Maybe the First World War and the subsequent chaos in Germany had something to do with Germany getting to that state in the first place? Because banning the posters is so going to get that feeling of chaos and out of the air....
     

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