Save 50% On Rush buying

[Zephir]

I've found out how to save about 50% on Rush Buying.

If you want to rush buy, let's say a Knight, you'll have to pay 560 Gold.

But if you first rush buy a Worker (80 Gold), then switch to a Musketeer and rush buy him (200 Gold), and then finally switch to the Knight (Not rush buying) you'll have him ready in one turn for 280 Gold! That's a saving on 50%.

This technique can save you a lot of money when you rush buy.

 

[tetley]

Ming, were you hurrying your Knights out fresh? The price for hurrying is 4 gold/shield, if you already have a few shields produced. Otherwise it doubles. Hence your 50% savings.

 

[Zephir]

Yep - they were fresh.
But that'll explain it...
If you rush buy a Worker, you'll have some shields production in the city and then the price for the knight wont be doubled.

But it's still usefull, cause the only way to get shields in a city is to rush buy something, or wait a turn. If you start rush buying a worker, only his price will be doubled (40 to 80 Gold), so you'll save a turn for 40 Gold that way.

 

[Black Fluffy Lion]

good strategy Ming

 

[tetley]

There are two other ways to get shields your first turn:

1) Disband a unit
2) Clear a forest
3) A few city improvements give shields when you sell them (e.g. Solar Plants).

What I do is build Warriors and then disband them, giving you two shields. I think that's a better option than hurrying a Worker fresh, if you do the math.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by tetley
There are two other ways to get shields your first turn:

1) Disband a unit
2) Clear a forest
3) A few city improvements give shields when you sell them (e.g. Solar Plants).

What I do is build Warriors and then disband them, giving you two shields. I think that's a better option than hurrying a Worker fresh, if you do the math.

Or just wait a turn so there are a few shields in the bin.

 

[Zachriel]

Or at the other extreme, you can delete as many units as necessary to build the improvement -- even in cities in resistance. I do this sometimes in culturally contested areas to force the temple.

 

[Zephir]

The price for rush buying is 4 Gold / Shield, and if you try to rush buy something fresh, the price doubles

If you want to rush buy, let's say a knight, you have to pay,
70 Shields * 8 = 560 Gold!

But if you first rush buy a Worker,
10 Shields * 8 Gold = 80 Gold.

Then switch to a Musketeer and rush buy him,
(60 Shields - 10 Shields [from the Worker]) * 4 = 200 Gold.

And then finally switch to the Knight (Not rush buying) you'll have him ready in one turn for 280 Gold! That's a saving on 50%.

Smart people will notice that 10 Shields is missing from the calculations, a Knight cost 70 Shields and I've only paid to rush buy 60 (10 from the Worker and 50 from the Musketeer), this means that the city need to have at least 10 Shields production to finish the Knight in one turn.

This is the whole point! I have to pay double to rush buy a Worker, but by NOT rush buying the last 10 Shields I've saved 40 Gold, which is exactly the price I had to pay extra for the Worker, that is why I can get a saving on 50%

We can take this even further, if your city have 30+ production then you can rush buy a Long Bow man (40 Shields) instead of a Musketeer, this way you'll get the Knight for only 200 Gold

80 Gold [from the Worker] + (40 Shields - 10 Shields [from the Worker]) * 4 = 200 Gold

This technique can save you a lot of money when you rush buy stuff. The only thing you have to do is to look at the production in the city then subtract it from the Shield cost of the Structure/Unit you want to buy and then find an other Structure/Unit that cost the same number of Shields as you got from the subtraction.

Example:
My city produce 30 Shields/turn, so I need to rush buy 40 Shields to get a Knight in one turn.
70 Shields [the cost of the knight] - 30 Shields [The production in the city] = 40 Shields
I chose to rush buy a Long Bow Man, which cost exactly 40 Shields.

The saving is then:
[Production in the City] * 4 - 40 Gold = Saving

The above is only true if you rush buy the right number of Shields... If you have 31 production in the city and rush buy a Long Bow Man, you'll only save 80 Gold NOT 84.

Note that this saving is the "extra saving". Because you'll still have saved 50% as long as your city produce 10 Shields/turn to nullify the 40 Gold you paid extra for the Worker, every Shield after 10 will increase the saving beyond 50%.

So my city with 30 production/turn will save 64% if it use this technique to rush buy a knight!!

I hope you guys can follow me... I've tried to make this as understandable as possible - And I know if I succeeded doing so!

 

[Zachriel]

That's why they shouldn't charge double for rush-buying on an empty bin. You can "jimmy" the game to beat the doubling anyway, so they should abandon the concept for game playability reasons.

 

[Pggar]

Originally posted by Zachriel
That's why they shouldn't charge double for rush-buying on an empty bin. You can "jimmy" the game to beat the doubling anyway, so they should abandon the concept for game playability reasons.

A less drastic (than eliminating the concept) solution to this exploit would be to forbid the change of production in a city after you've rush built something.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Pggar
A less drastic (than eliminating the concept) solution to this exploit would be to forbid the change of production in a city after you've rush built something.

Good idea. There's always more than one solution.

BTW, Ming, good tip.

 

[royfurr]

I agree 100% with Pggar. This business of by-your-bootstraps rush building, swithching production, rush building again, repeat repeat, etc etc seems to be "gaming the system" and as such should be considered almost the quintessential exploit. Although this loophole has been around since earlier civ games, IMO it should be closed. Pggar's suggestion would seem to do so nicely.

Admittedly, some of the improvements prices ARE pretty outrageous, especially with the price increases some got with the 1.16f patch. Still, this technique seems to totally bend the spirit of the rules, if not the letter.

Now, before I get flamed as Mr. Goody Two shoes fanboy, let me say that I *do* think that the anti-reload cheat technique of the "saved seed" for the RNG is bad. Although personally I almost never reload after a combat result, or entering a Goody Hut, this is OUR game and if a player wants to CHEAT, they should be able to do so. But if they do, their score should be "tainted" and marked as such in the various "Results" screens. And before you believe someones 10 zillion points by the year 1500, challenge them to show those screens- without a "Via RELOADS" or "Via Cheats" marker. Still, I think the rush build bootstrap techinque shouldn't be allowed (FOR THE AI EITHER!!)

Maybe those two positions are not consistent, but then thats what makes us human, and not an AI!

 

[Zephir]

I wouldn't call this an exploit, cause all you do is to use the production in the city as efficiently as possible. A lot of Shields is wasted when you rush buy something, and to rush buy something and then switch to another and more costly unit and still get it finished in one turn isn't an exploit IMHO.

But I must agree with you that re-loading over and over again and using cheat codes or trainers is SO lame!!

 

[tetley]

If they didn't double the hurry price the first turn, pop-rushing would be overpowered. Some think it already is now.