Save/load lame?

[KROL]

I've been wondering about this for a while now:

How many people here save before each attempted conquest? What I usually do is save right before I declare war or attack an enemy city. If it goes really badly (for example, I lose several valuable units) I'll reload and change my tactics. How many of you refuse to do this because it's "lame"?

 

[KMadCandy]

i used to do it. i don't now. it was a habit i decided i should break, since it made the lower levels too easy but i was still afraid to go up to the higher difficulty levels even though hubby kept nagging me to. so, i started using the Hall of Fame mod and submitting games there. it was a way to motivate myself "yeah ok i can NOT do that this time cuz then i couldn't submit this game."

it's not that i refuse to reload because it's "lame". IMO if you're playing singleplayer do what you want and don't worry about what other consider cheating or whatever. but i'm definitely getting much much better now that i don't do it. learning from my mistakes is worth more to me than just redoing a move out of frustration. usually, that is ... don't ask me to verify that right after i do something spectacularly stupid or i might give the opposite answer after i'm done cussing at the monitor!

i do save games at key decision points, with a name that will help me remember, in case i later want to go back and finish it differently, a kind of "alternate ending". but i don't reload for different results any more.

 

[Cam_H]

I don't reload unless doing something for purely experimental purposes or if I'm responding to a 'Help Me!' thread, in which case I'm unambiguous about saying that it took me 'X' attempts to win the game. I don't reload formerly failed conquests just to do better the next time at them.

Conversely, I'm probably a bit quick to abort games completely and roll up a new map.

 

[carl corey]

I used to do this a lot up to Noble level. I used to try to "always win" until I realized it just takes away from my playing time and from enjoying the game as I should. Now I never reload unless my comp crashes or I have weird situations (like the one where I got the announcement that an AI become another one's vassal AFTER I started the war - when in fact it happened in between turns). Or, as Cam_H said, if I'm trying to meet a specific goal and I'm playing a little risky for it just to see if and how it can be done.

Do I consider reloading lame? Unless you come here and brag about a win without saying if you reloaded or not, I just don't care. Everybody's free to do what they want and whatever makes their gaming experience more interesting.

By the way, see my online thread (in my link) for an example of a bad decision when I first declared war on Huayna. I was immediately invaded by enough Cavalry to make me shake with fear, got pillaged and what's more, got pillaged near the capital! I just continued and tried to find a counter and kept it going from there. In the end I'd say the victory was even more spectacular, coming back from that. For me at least.

 

[cabert]

I never did it the way you put it.
But, in a learning pattern, I saved at some key points :
- 4000BC (the most useful one )
- On the turn where I decide for a gamble
- ...

I went back to those saves to try a totally different strat (going cultural from 4000 BC on, or warring my way to a decent piece of land, then going cultural,...).
Now that I think I know enough of the game to correctly assess what I do, I don't do it anymore. But it was a really helpful learning tool.
I played the same "spain on a lake" map 3 or 4 times up to 1000 AD, before actually finishing it for my first monarch cultural win, after a "domination like war plan" (= a cultural win with 25 cities, no way I could lose this, although it's not as fast as a direct cultural rush).

 

[Bagpuss]

I reloaded twice during my last game because I'd let cities grow into unhappiness in BC years. I find this the most frustrating and least enjoyable aspect of the game. Why should I have to micro-manage all of my cities every couple of turns just to check that I'm not about to grow past the happiness limit?

I realise that the situation is better than in previous versions of the game, but is it really asking too much to have what would be an unhappy citizen automatically assigned as a 'citizen specialist'? It's not even like you can just glance at the domestic advisor because what you really need to know is what the food surplus situation is and how many turns til the next 'pop'. It's harsh that there's such a penalty for forgetting to do that every few turns.

I won't reload for rash decisions since my first couple of learning games though. The funny thing is that when you decide 'no reloads' you make fewer of them!

 

[Greeneyedzombie]

I only do it when the game decides to give me a stroke of bad luck. Like losing in a row 8 cr3 preatorians vs 1 warrior in a grasland city with out defence.

 

[uncarved block]

I do, but not as much as before. Some of it is nervous habit-- having the game (and the movies!) get all screwy toward the end can really make a long session end in misery. Stability isn't as much of an issue after the patches, but it's just become reflex to save after an hour and a half if the game is going well. I'm with Cam_H on the quick hook for games, especially if Monty is a neighbor and gets the upper hand early.

The single best use for reloading, perhaps, is to replay a war and try different tactics. I used to get sucker punched by neighbors all the time, and learning how to deal (or not) with a huge invasion force was quite handy. With the new patch, the AI doesn't seem to bring the heat quite like it used to, at least not until Cavalry and Rifles. (There are notable exceptions.) It's also interesting to see just how inevitable diplomacy can be, seeing if you can prevent a war declaration that came 15 turns after a save. (Not usually, FYI.) Great way to learn that relations need a long term as well as short term perspective.

 

[Eggolas]

An old habit broken. I used to save and re-load when I was struggling with Noble level games. Now I just accept the battle or that someone beat me to a city site. It makes the game more interesting.

 

[JoeBlade]

They're your games, play them however you want to.
If you enjoy them more by reloading then why do you even care what other people think of it? As long as you don't come gloating about what a fantastic player you are, I fail to see why it should even be anyone's concern but your own.
Moreover, I strongly suspect you'll tire of it before long anyhow as it IS quite tedious. I had my share of reloading in civ 1 where combat was hideously random, so I was utterly sick and tired of repeated reloading before I even started on civ 4

Reloading can be useful for experimental & learning purposes too. When facing a difficult choice you'll learn more from reloading and trying both IMHO. Not only will you see which option is better, but you should also have an idea as to why it's better. This will help improve your future games.
Likewise when you're simply unsure whether something would work or how it works. Without reloading you may never figure it out. Civ 4 is a complex game with a quite steep learning curve. If reloading helps you overcome it then by all means, do so.

/awaits angry 'a kitten dies every time you reload' mob

 

[pigswill]

Reloading is certainly ok as a learning tool (I used to reload a lot when I started prince though I've now largely given up the habit). One problem of replaying a game is that even if you aren't consciously trying to cheat its hard to forget that iron is there and the mongols are over there etc. etc.

 

[lilnev]

I don't reload for "bad decision" or "bad die roll" reasons.

Sometimes if a legitimate mis-click is costly enough I'll go back to the last autosave and replay it the way I intended to. Example: I hit the right arrow twice to move a unit on a road two spaces East. Forgetting that I don't yet have Construction, so he only gets one move when crossing a river. Then the next unit hears that second keystroke, and steps East. Normally I won't care enough, but if I just fed a worker to a barbarian, I'll back it up. (Anyone else make this mistake? Yeah, I see a lot of hands.... Why isn't there an 'undo' button? It could be suitably disabled for multiplayer and HOF submissions.)

I try not to do this for micromanagement oversights (example: I had been intending to whip for 2 pop last turn, but forgot, and now I could only whip for one) on the theory that it will train me to be more careful. But once in a while, if I had honestly planned to do something and it's costly enough, I might.

peace,
lilnev

 

[KMadCandy]

Example: I hit the right arrow twice to move a unit on a road two spaces East. Forgetting that I don't yet have Construction, so he only gets one move when crossing a river. Then the next unit hears that second keystroke, and steps East. Normally I won't care enough, but if I just fed a worker to a barbarian, I'll back it up. (Anyone else make this mistake? Yeah, I see a lot of hands.... Why isn't there an 'undo' button? It could be suitably disabled for multiplayer and HOF submissions.)

and the pause after actions sometimes long enough that hitting the order intended for your next unit causes the move to be queued up for the previous (used up) unit instead. oh the time i spend hitting that \ key and cancelling the action /sigh.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I'll add my voice to the 'experimental reloads' chorus.

I tend to play three different kinds of games:

1) 'Serious' games; standard settings, with no regens or reloads or WB, on the toughest difficulty I can compete on.

2) 'Fun' games; anything but standard settings, with regens but no reloads except when things go horribly wrong, WB for 'flavour' purposes (eg. giving every civ one awesomely powerful city, or adding peaks to create choke-points), on whichever difficulty will make the game challenging but beatable.

3) 'Experimental' games; standard settings, with regens and reloads and WB, often on the the next level up from the highest difficulty I can beat.

The experimental games have been crucial to my advance through the levels. The advantage from a few regens or reloads, or an extra resource worldbuildered into your territory, can allow you to keep up with the AI despite the inevitable moves when trying out a new level or strategy.

 

[LucyDuke]

What matters is how you feel about it. You're not cheating anyone else.

I find myself doing it less and less, not because it's "lame", but because I sort of spoil the experience for myself. If I can't deal with things the way they happen, well, what am I doing? Certainly not improving my game...

I almost always save at 4000BC so I can try a completely different game with the same setup, though it's slightly less legit because of the spoilers. I usually don't, but I like to have the option. Once Tokugawa invaded me out of the blue, so I reloaded ten turns earlier and sent Monty after him. I lost the game anyway! I find that in the grand scheme it doesn't help, and I'm not going to bother with the load time just to maybe save a few units.

 

[LucyDuke]

despite the inevitable moves

Dumb question, please? I see the in a lot of threads like aelf's and Sisiutil's games, and have no clue what people are talking about... enlighten me?

 

[carl corey]

It's like smoking weed. The opposite of making you brighter for the moment...

 

[dragomaster]

I ushally save often, it's an old habbit of mine.

I reload when I acualy could see barbs or enemies without warning from game and when workers automatacly choop a forest i was planing to preechoop.

Outherwise i don't reload. In the begining i cheeted alot and every time i looked on the history map i felt bad, it was no achivment realy.

 

[carl corey]

dragomaster, if you want a worker to only prechop, just cancel his action at the end of each turn. Click on "chop", go back to the worker and click on "cancel action". Then it would have spent a turn chopping but next turn it's free to do whatever it wants. That's how I do it and it works pretty well.

 

[ratrangerm]

I usually reload for minor things, such as forgetting to crack the whip with one turn left and it means I'd exceed my happiness threshold if I didn't whip.

As far as battles go, much of that has been saved because you can no longer save and reload to get new combat results so you win every battle, unless you check the option to generate a new random seed on the custom game screen. I just never check that option if doing other custom options, so then it's never an issue and combat results remain the same.