sc:01 Moddern war

[Simon_c]

OK. Here's the main thread for playing.

I'm looking for the typical 24hr got it, 48hr play unless events require a discussion. Please request skips ahead of time if you can. Probably looking for a 20/15/15 for the first three turnsets, then 10 turns each if events work out right.

We want good descriptions of your turnset, some nice pics too.

For any lurkers, we're looking to get to the WW2/modern age before we invade any other continents, but we're aiming to conquer our continent as soon as we can then get a good economy going.

We're Hatty of Egypt (random) who is creative and spiritual. UU is war chariots, and UB is obelisk.
You'll need HoF mod to play too
http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/mod.php


All victories are on, but we only want to win through conquest of domination.

Current roster is
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown
4: playshogi

[optional slots if someone joins in within the first round or maybe two. ]
5: tiberion02 ??
6: [empty]

 

[Simon_c]

SC01. Turnset 1

turn 1: 4000BC

Move warior 1W up the hill to look around, and we have a long discussion
Decide on settler 1W in the woods. We loose a forest, but there are two mountains if we go 1SW1W.
And, I'd rather get the corn we know is there, and not a seafood that may not be there.

Ah, a 2nd flood plain too. That will be good for cottaging.

turn 2:
We found Thebes.


And, the villagers provide us with a map of the north west.
And we get a forest growing next to Thebes.
Building worker, researching AH

To the nothwest, we seem to have the coast, so we seem to be on a long skinny continent.
One village and one wheat field up there.

I'm going to explore south and see what we have down there.


Turn 6 3875BC. We find a hut, and it's got some barbs in it. but only one.

IBT: The barbs don't attack us. I hope they keep out of our city !

turn 7:
Fur and Dear in the south. That should help happy and health a little.
found the barbs too.

and they attack


and we win, just. Our warrior is looking for a forested hill to recover on.

Turn8: 3825BC

Turn 10: 3775BC
Looks like there's barbs about now. (seems very early) How long is the gap before they don't enter your
capitol ?

Turn 11: 3750BC.
We find our first Victim, er neighbors I meen.
Willem Van Oranje of the Dutch has found out capitol from the north. It's a scout, so he could be up to 20 squares away. He's got an archer too !! Our capitol should keep all the (ahem) “good” land to the south to us.

Turn 15: 3650BC.
The first religion is found. Christianity.

Turn 16: 3625BC
Budism FIADL too.
So, I guess there's at least two civs out there staring with spiritual.
Not sure if we'll get to mono first if we try.

Turn 17: Our warrior is fixed up, and ready to explorer some more. One more move south, see if ther'es any more fish. Nope, don't think so. We'll head back north now.

nothing else happens until the end of turn19


Here's the save,
http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/111964/sc01_BC-3550.CivBeyondSwordSave



Current roster is
1: Simon_c <-- Juts Played
2: S.ilver ** Up now **
3: Madtown <-- Up on deck.
4: playshogi

[optional slots if someone joins in within the first round or maybe two. ]
5: tiberion02 ??
6: [empty]

 

[tiberion02]

Willem von Oranje is a good first, er, target.

No aggressive traits, UUs or UBs. As long as we get to him before the Dutch mature with Dikes, we'll be all set. War Chariot rush seems completely doable, fingers crossed for Horses nearby.

 

[Madtown]

Ah, a 2nd flood plain too. That will be good for cottaging.

Yeah, but notice how it's not where I predicted.


We'll probably want mining and pottery next, to get our capital up and running and provide jobs for the workforce. Build a couple of warriors and scout the north.

 

[S.ilver]

Got it. I'll take a peek at it now. Is the plan to head straight for mono to try for a religion (any preferences if we get there)? We kind of completely lack any techs there, and I don't see any stone or marble to want masonry.

EDIT: My sentiments agree with Madtown. We'll be wanting to get our capital set up.

 

[S.ilver]

3550BC (0):
Preflight check. We're got a warrior, and that's about it. Nothing at all to adjust. Husbandry in next turn. Hit end turn.

3525BC (1):
Animal Husbandry comes in. Exciting. Mining next in 10, production options in Thebes are limited without mines.

I notice the turncount beside the year. It states it's turn 19. You only played 18 turns Simon!

3500BC (2):
Notice Willem's Archer which has Combat 1 and Cover. Willem is Creative and Financial, so clearly he's been chewing on some animals and barbs.

3475BC (3):
Warrior moving North. Nothing at all in the south that would interest our early expansion efforts.

3450BC (4):
Nada... more warrior movement.

3425BC (5):
Let's see, Willem started this turnset at 50ish points, and is now at 85 O.o

IBT: Meet Alex. He comes from the north too with a Scout. The Greeks mean trouble, because their Phalanx's will own our War Chariots if we try and attack them. Peace is good.

Spoiler :

3400BC (6):
Worker done! I finally have more than one unit to move (and Thebes can grow!). Worker starts a pasture on the pigs and Thebes starts on a Warrior.

Notice we have more points than Alex O.o Wonder what's wrong with his AI...

3375BC (7):
I was debating whether or not I should check. Good thing I did.

Spoiler :

3350BC (8):
Lucky deviation to find the horses has delayed our warrior going north. He's heading that way now.

3325BC (9):
Zzz... Oh wait, Alex outstripped us in points this turn. Luckily we will finish mining in 2.

3300BC (10):
Zzz... Really this time...

3275BC (11):
Mining is in... No metals in our explored territory though

Let's see... we can go Pottery next for cottages... but I recall that we wanted Obs to run priests to bulb Theology. Unfortunately, since we're a size ONE city, we won't be running priests for a while (couple that with nearby horses). So Pottery wins! Will need money to support a conquest anyways, and to help tech.

Getting mining did not help our score against Alex . However, Willem is still at 85 points.

3250BC (12):
Pasture is done, going to road it before doing anything else (like building a mine) (let me know if this is a bad worker choice). Note, annoyed, that pastured pigs only gives more food, no hammers. Definitely need a mine next.

3225BC (13):
Warrior has finally reached our northern border and will begin exploring north next turn.

3200BC (14):
Move warrior onto the forested hill north of the border and spot a barb.

Spoiler :

3175BC (15):
Warrior still moving north. Oodles of jungle to the north as well. Still room enough for 2 or 3 productive cities, although more exploration is necessary.

Pottery in 9, Warrior in 6. Also, city grew last turn and I forgot to MM it, and the stupid governor put the new citizen on the flood plain (Wait another 11 turns for the warrior? I don't think so!). Citizen has been moved onto a riverside grass hill.

WORKER HAS NOT MOVED YET THIS TURN! He finished the road at the end of last turn, but I have not moved him yet, because I do not know if everyone would like my choice. I would put him on the hill to start mining it next turn because we're woefully short of hammers in Thebes, but we can also improve the corn. So I've not moved him yet, and will let Madtown do that .

Ok, what the heck? Took a bunch of screenshots and they didn't take, so the only shot I have in my buffer is the barbs shot. Go load up the autosave to find the horses turn. Load 3400BC and get Alex's face too, so put that screenshot back in... (Gah, whoops, nevermind, found them while looking for the save. Forgot that BtS has its own folder).

 

[playshogi]

Nice to discover horses in our backyard. I guess that means the 2nd city goes between the horse and sheep, so we can also get the clam. You can't discover metals with mining. You need Bronze Working to discover copper and Iron Working to discover iron. Mining was a good choice of research but if you didn't like mysticism after that, bronze working was the most obvious choice to discover copper and for the slavery civic and for forest chopping and hope for metals with which to face Alex. Roading the pig was unnecessary because it was already hooked up because of the river. Better to have moved onto the corn. I think we should research BW, then mysticism, and then finish pottery if we want it.

 

[Madtown]

Got it!

Regarding the road on the pasture, I probably would've skipped it. Pasture on a river is immediatly connected (even without sailing) as long as the river is in cultural borders. This applies for other cities' resources as well, as long as the river travels solely within cultural borders.

Otherwise solid turns.

I'll finish researching pottery then I think we should go with either mysticism or fishing. Will build two warriors then a settler for suggested RED site, as per preliminary dotmap below:



I suppose Red could go 1SW, but personally I don't find that too attractive.

The Blue and Green sites can wait, and this may not be the best placement either. Once horses are claimed, settling priority should go to expanding north to claim land.

What say ye?

 

[tiberion02]

2nd city should prolly go right between northern clams, southern pigs and western horses, 1SW of the mountain on the open grassland. Has 3 minable hills (steal one from Thebes?), 2 forests we could possibly keep around for lumbermills and could be a decent production city longterm, and very good for putting out War Chariots.

edit: red dot @ above, was making post when you posted dotmap.

But agreed, build the RED dot City, then expand north as best we can. Southern area can be put off for quite a while.

 

[playshogi]

Between horse and sheep picks up southern clam. Another city 1 s of wheat gets northern clam. That's 3 cities with 2 food boni, working all our resources. In the tundra, I prefer to settle on the hill 1 north of fur picking up both deer and both fur with a few grassland river squares to be farmed. This city, with 8+ forests, (if we remember to keep them all) makes for an excellent National Epic + National Park city, except that it's one of the coast. Green and blue dot above are marginal cities because they only have 1 deer. I thinks it's really critical that early cities all have 2 food bonuses, so they can grow back quickly when we start whipping. Also, we need to explore more fully in case more seafood is lurking in the shadow.

 

[S.ilver]

You can't discover metals with mining. You need Bronze Working to discover copper and Iron Working to discover iron.

Clearly I wasn't in my right of mind. How could I forget that!

I'm inclined to agree with Playshogi that we should get the southern clam with the first city. Other than the great explanation provided, we won't be able to get that clam otherwise due to crappy city locations in the south. For production options for that city, we lose a hill, and gain a tundra (meh) and a plains, but we also ditch the two dead mountain tiles for some assorted coastal tiles (a win any way you look at it).

If we move red dot southwest, I'd move blue dot west one square, keeping coastal access, getting river access, and increasing our production options (already have plenty of money options). But I do agree that we want to go north after netting the horses, and not south.

Thanks for the tip about the road. I knew I was forgetting something about it, but it actually didn't occur to me to check the city screen and see the pigs (doh!). I thought you did need sailing. Good to know.

EDIT: Keeping a count. That's 2 for me on the first turn O.o

 

[playshogi]

Here's my dotmap. I like the tundra city even though it's off the coast because it just maximizes capturing all that crappy land with our culture and is on hill making a great barb defender.

 

[S.ilver]

Some more thoughts from me (likely incorrect, but hey, getting them shot down with explanations is better than clinging to ignorance).

I'm not sure I see the priority for fishing right now. We're 6 turns more on this warrior, and at least that many more on a second (that was the plan right?), so it'll be a bit before the settler comes out, and fishing doesn't help Thebes right now.

I might have to reneg on my opinion of Mysticism, because I just realized that the Obelisk is Eygpt's special building .

Regarding metals to face Alex; we will doubtless know when Alex discovers Bronze Working, because (in my experience), the AI always automatically switches into slavery upon discovering it. After some thought, it probably would've been better had I set it on BW, because we'd get the slavery switch for free. Time for me to work on seeing the big picture.

Blue dot in playshogi's dotmap does look ok, because we can farm over all the grassland tiles and have decent production down there, but is it really wise to have another 1 tile off the coast city, considering our narrow landmass and continents setting? Not that we have to decide immediately because blue dot represents low priority settling.

 

[tiberion02]

Assuming there are no major undiscovered resources like fish in the shadows, I drew up a basic dotmap.



Red is the 2nd city to be founded, and if paired up with Moai Statues, could be a massive producer (including Navy) both now, and down the road.

Green to the north would be the 3rd city I'd found, for reasons stated more eloquently above, grabbing 2 food resources for decent whipping. 4 tile overlap with the capital and 1 mountain though, but what you gonna do?

Blue to the south would be a city founded later on when we run out of land to the north to expand into. Has access to both river (dike) and ocean. Lots of cottagable/farmable area with fresh water access for extra I suspect we may find a metal in that non-forested hill too.

Orange is a late build city. Maybe we get lucky and have an oil or uranium hidden down in that ice somewhere. Not a huge priority, just some land/resource grab town that may be able to break even on maintance costs with 1 deer/2furs in BFC

 

[Madtown]

Huh. I'm torn.

I agree that my green site is rather food poor, but it does have a couple of farmable grasslands and could be a marginal prod city in the later game. Plus, we hopefully won't be settling it until after norhtern expansion is complete.

My blue though is a solid site IMO, with deer and a floodplain to for food, extra grassland to farm or cottage as needed, and a few hills and forests for production. I also feel it fits the land and other potential placements a little better. I agree it'd be nice 1W for river acess, but this increases overlap with possible green sites more than I usually like in my games.

I guess either Red dot will work for me, though I'm not sure claiming the southern clam is really worth it. Wheat city could just as easily be placed 1N of wheat and avoid the capital overlap (new purple dot).

My only complaint with Playshogi's blue dot is that it leaves a unwieldy open space that doesn't fit in another city very nicely. Deer and beavers aren't all that important (OK well... maybe the beaver is ), but I'm not sure they merit the placement as we'd still need to build a few farms to achieve max pop.

Here's yet another map with all suggested sites shown.



Filled circles are my original suggestions. Open circles are suggested by Playshogi and S.ilver. (forgot to show 1S of wheat)

Green open cirlcle makes blue placement difficult.

As far as tech goes, I think we should just finish pottery, as I don't see us whipping anything in the next 20 turns anyway. It will take that long and more just to grow to pop 5. After pottery, we can tech BW and hopefully find some copper. Will continue scouting in the north, maybe locate Alex or Willem.

Ponder on that tonight comrades and I'll check back in tomorrow morning. Will play then or tomorrow PM depending on amount of response/consensus.

Edit: Craps, everyone is throwing out dotmaps! Whatever, red dot is the only critical one that needs to be decided. Although it's unlikely I'll settle it in my turns.

Edit#2: On second thought, we probably should switch to BW. Once the corn is online we will be able to grow quickly. The sooner we can get the settler out and claim some mustangs the better.

 

[Simon_c]

Hi all
A lot of activity over night

I notice the turncount beside the year. It states it's turn 19. You only played 18 turns Simon!

Doh. I always get confused with the first turn being 0, or 1, or whatever . I guess I thought I started at 0, so should let you start at 20. Oh well.

S.ilver, good turns. I'm a little miffed I missed the horses on the way down south. Good catch.

Red City:
One SE of the horses looses us another forest.
Will be a total of:
Sea: 9
Hills: 2 (one currently forested, the other will probably pastured)
Tundra: 1
Grassland: 3 + one horse
Forest: 2 (we'd probably loose one for forest.
lake: 1

2E of horses:
Mountians: 2
Sea: 6
hills: 3 (one currently forested, the other will probably pastured)
Grassland: 4, one forested.
Forest: 4
Desert: 1
lake: 1

So, 2E has less workable tiles long term, but makes a better short term city I think.
And, green can then go north of the wheat, getting more area. (I'm guessing the hut's gone to Bill. That's Tiberion02's green. Pink on Mad's map. (Ahhh. too many dot maps )

I'd vote on 2E,

Or, would we want our settler party to burn a turn or two to explore right up the peninsula ?
We'll want an escort for the settler, so we could build that first, and send him out there, he'll have a chance to explore, then return to the border to pick up the settler.


I Like the idea of light blue dot on playshogi's map, it captures all the crappy tundra, and can be fed from the north, but it does leave some land we'd have to close up with a junk city to stop the AIs on other continents getting it.


Can we try to post the roster up along with the save too.

Anyhoo. I've got to get back to work now.

 

[playshogi]

Red Dot - SE of horse. Gets southern clam and sheep. How can you ignore this resource? It's 5 food (with lighthouse)! We should get a peek at the unknown sea tiles before deciding, but only to decide if maybe settling on the desert is better. Another advantage to settling next to the horse, is that the worker can build the pasture right away and not wait for 8 turns for the border to expand.

 

[Madtown]

Playing now.

Will switch research to BW, build a mine and hopefully farm the corn, and pop out a couple warriors for exploration and escort.

 

[Simon_c]

Red Dot - SE of horse. Gets southern clam and sheep. How can you ignore this resource? It's 5 food (with lighthouse)! We should get a peek at the unknown sea tiles before deciding, but only to decide if maybe settling on the desert is better. Another advantage to settling next to the horse, is that the worker can build the pasture right away and not wait for 8 turns for the border to expand.

But two east gets the northern clams too.
But yes, it will need the border pop.

I'm pretty poor at city placement though. I tend to maximize resource usage at the detriment to everything else....


Pfft. Well, it will probably be settled by the time I play, so it's not my decision

 

[Madtown]

OK, my first SG. Since it's a Friday, I figured I would treat myself so I stopped by my favorite beer store. In homage to our Canadian teamate S.ilver, I chose a bottle of Unibroue "trois pistoles."



Turn 33 (inherited turn): Worker moves to hill to build mine. Warrior in 6 turns, growth in 6 turns. BW in 20 turns.




Turn 36: Barbarian Warrior shows up in the northeast (seems early).



IBT: Barb retreats back into the fog.

Turn 38: We find Willem&#8217;s borders 5 tiles directly north of our capital.



Turn 39: Thebes&#8217; borders expand, it grows to pop 3 and finishes first warrior. Begins building another warrior, due in 6 turns. MM city to work new mine.

New warrior is sent exploring to northeast.

Turn 40: Worker starts to farm corn.

Turn 43: Exploring warrior finds more horsies and some other stuff to northeast of Thebes.

Turn 45: Warrior finishes in Thebes. The city will grow to pop 4 in one turn so I put it on max food and que a warrior for a turn.

Turn 46: Thebes grows to pop 4. Switches to a settler, due in 15.

Turn 48: Worker finishes corn, moves to plains hill for another mine. BW due in 4 turns. Settler will finish in 10 turns.

Question is, which horse site do we want now?




Zoomed out some more to show everything explored so far.




I also didn't uncover playshogi's "?" tiles near the first horse site. It was a case of lack of manpower. I felt we needed to know more about the rest of the land before we detour back just for a few tiles.

We may want to bring home one of the eastern warroirs and rely on just one to explore until we can build a 2 move chariot.

That's my 15. BTW, the trois pistoles is good

Save here.

Edit for Rooster:
1: Simon_c
2: S.ilver
3: Madtown <-- Just Played
4: playshogi **Up Now**
5: tiberion02 <-- on deck