Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by El Justo, Aug 2, 2004.
yes, and you can pick right up where you left off.
Really? I thought you had to start a new game! YAY!
Indeed I do.
@ El Justo: are you planning on adding any of the World War I units that Wyrmshadow created?
yes and i await the ones that are in the pipeline, too
El Justo - I do like the minimap style, because it fits the Steampunk theme AoI v 4 will have aesthetically, so maybe it's as simple as merely sizing it down? The statues on both sides of the minimap image could have their arms removed and yet appear stationary, and the blue rectangular fields (more like grayish-blue) could be the surrounding border of the minimap. In any case, I'm sure it'll turn out well. Looking forward to playing v 4!
I got bored of Austria-Hungary. I think I'll be one of the South Americans.
Anyway, heres a screenshot of how it turned out:
Pretty good? I think so
But theres still so much left to conquer
Hey guys, I would like to hear your end on this:
What is your favorite way for knocking the british down a peg or two? It would be really hard to invade those Isles, so obviously target their colonies. But which ones first, and how?
It depends who you are. The main British colonies are India which is the most important. Then big ones are Canada, Australia, South Africa and Egypt/Sudan. So whichever one you are closest to I guess. If you are the US Canada obviously. If you are say Russia or Japan go for India, possibly Australia if you can manage. If you are France British Egypt/Sudan and Malaysia and India. So on.
What nation are you playing as?
When I play Germany, I prepare enough transports and units in the Reich itself to invade Britain. I usually allocate about 100 artillery and 100 units for the job. That sounds like a lot... and it is. It depends on what year/turn you invade them anyways, considering British units are pretty powerful, and have high stats, in industrialized areas, let alone the heartland. However, landing at London, and capturing it will cripple the British, at least in Europe.
If I possess land in continental Asia, or if I'm Russia or Japan, eliminating British India is a must. You cannot hold Asian territories on the continent if you don't eliminate British India. Typically, I will take out China to possess a decent colonial base to challenge the British in India.
If you've got land in Africa, or your strategy must involve Africa (it should, Africa has a lot of resource potential), it depends on where you want to control Africa to begin with. If you're Boers, taking out South Africa is an absolute must. You will probably lose if you do not take all four British South African cities in a single war.
In any event, one of the best keys to winning a war against a powerful and economically resourceful empire like the British have involves stepping stones. For example, if you're Boers, it would be unwise to try to take Lusaka/Livingstone from the British after you take South Africa as quickly as you can. Most likely, the British will send in a wave of reinforcements, and you will not be able to hold them off. The key is to not overextend yourself. Set a sizeable goal, something reasonable, in land you wish to acquire. Then it's a matter of holding your frontlines, reinforcing cities under attack, and waiting to make peace. It's okay if they demand money per turn and up-front; you've just gained yourself good land. When the peace treaty expires, you're free to start another war, this time against Lusaka/Livingstone, probably after you go for the Portuguese and Germans, or even the Dutch in south-central Africa.
Don't overextend! Take a reasonable amount of territory if you're fighting the British, and defend as long as you can until you can make peace. You can always fight another day when you're even more powerful!
El J - I think you should consider renaming the small wonder "Battlefield Medicine" to something like "Red Cross Branch", reflecting an affiliation with the Red Cross which was founded in 1863, well before 1895 in the scenario.
I am Germany. An attack on the mainland is bold, my friend. However, you only need 100 artillery? It is 1903, and I have over 200- about 100 each of both the howitzers and the C96 Fields.
How about allies? For reference, the British are already at war with America and France, and have been at war with Russia for a ridiculous amount of time. If I were to declare war on them, should pull other nations-say, Portugal (who France had reduced to only their colonial holdings), Japan, the Boers and the other small african civ against them? Not to mention China to help France down in India... I mean, it'll help spread out all their attacks, but then I need to stay at war for 20 turns...
EDIT: The poo has hit the proverbial fan. USA has signed Spain, Chile, and the Cuban Natives against the British. This means that the British are only a few turns from being able to sign treaties, too. I've gotta get all the alliances ASAP. So heres the plan:
Sign France and Russia into an alliance, to keep them at war.
Then get Portugal, the Boers, the Abyssinians, Japan, and China, as well as anyone else I feel like. Hit hard and fast, then turtle and hope my new allies take the brunt of the counterattack.
I am also gonna cheat a bit, and send continental troops to Africa through french africa.
I will post pics- wish me luck!
EDIT: The Boers are scary! In the first turn of the war, they snatched Fort Elizabeth, razed the english colony on the east coast, and moved more than enough troops into position to take Livingston. Luckily I was able to snatch that before they did, and so most of my African colonies are connected!
As German player there is another strategy better IMO: Try to avoid war with Britain until you haven't got a solid base in Africa, colonies I mean. Therefore wars with the Dutch and Portuguese should be done at first to capture their African colonies. Then you have a single colony (except Togo) in Africa.
At this point France should have been at war with Britain. And I never saw France winning such a war in Africa nor Asia, where most of the colonies fell extremely fast. Here I would suggest to take the French colonies as quick as possible and unite with Britain. If you can retake a British colony, which was miraculously captured by the French, it is even better.
However, so you get a solid base. Add here a few guns from Europe and you can kick the Brits out of Africa, too.
At this very moment, Africa should be yours and you can make the next step: Asia!
In my game it was me (Austria-Hungary), Germany, France, Spain, Lowlands, China, Russia and the Persians against the British. I went for the mainland but I didn't have enough steam transports near there (they were all down in the med) so I couldn't get enough troops there. I managed to pillage roads and worker improvements around London and Plymouth but I couldn't take anywhere, so I decided to go for egypt/Sudan, first at Alexandria, then down to Khartoum, which joined my Italian colony up to the British one then took El Obeid and the one below Khartoum (what was that called?) and took Abysinnia and the rest of Italy (the 2 colonies next to each other).
BTW, in my new game I will be the USA but I saved it over my Austria-Hungary game accidentally
I only used approximately 100 artillery of varying "shapes and sizes". I'm fairly certain Britain was fighting someone else, and might've shipped stuff out of Great Britain, but with 100 artillery on automatic bombard of London on one of the tiles surrounding London, and with 100 or so actual units, machinegunners and infantry, waiting for the defenses to be softened, I didn't encounter a problem. I rarely play Germany, and that was probably the furthest I went as Germany. But, once taking out the UK itself, Britain effectively has lost. Britain in Africa tends to overpower everyone else, and they tend to overpower anyone in mainland Asia, as well as Oceania, and I've seen Britain go on a rampage throughout South America like a hopping mad Jack the Jumper, but by losing its only real source of Industrialization, all its units will be limited to, effectively, colonial-quality.
I have a version designed specifically for when I play as Germany or as Austria, where the locked alliance is disabled. I don't need no stinking allies.
As for military alliances, if I were go to war against a powerful foe, I would try to sign as many alliance pacts as I could to ensure that foe is crippled. It means everyone else divides the spoils and grows powerful, but at least one faction is knocked out, and everyone else expends military resources in competition with one another.
I've seen the Boers take territory and hold it, although usually, the Boers can get creamed, especially if they duke it out with the British.
I'm playing as France. It's week 5 of 1901, and I've been at war with Britain for quite some time now. I love being France, I'm somewhat of a Francophile to begin with, and France is actually a challenging position. Its power in Africa is threatened immensely by Britain, and its Indochina territory is again threatened... by Britain. Its South American colony, Polynesian colony, and Caribbean colony are all isolated, alone, and can be taken by the British, or even a Latin American country, which happens often. And then there's its home base in Europe, bordering the German-Austrian allied states (when I don't play Germany or Austria, I leave the alliance for them locked).
Wary of being weak, I set out an ambitious military production plan. 6 French Legionnaires and 6 French Colonial Infantry per colonial city, or 3 and 3 if it's an inland city surrounded by no enemies. For some of my tiny islands, I put three garrisons in the city, plus one unit on the spare tile so amphibious assaults would most likely fail. In Europe, I built the small wonders and continued producing French Infantry, all the while rushing production everywhere necessary so I could respond to threats with some degree of efficiency. I turned on China, taking it through no small miracle: the AI kept most of its units bottled up in Lhasa. I have no explanation, but it made the complete conquest of China not too difficult. I then set about properly garrisoning China, and redistributing military throughout China/Indochina to fight any possible British incursions.
Austria declared war on Russia, dragging Germany in with them. There actually was a lull in which neither side took anything, which told me Russia actually had a decent military. However, Talinn fell to the German forces. I took this as an opportunity, and I launched an invasion of Germany through the Lowlands (right of passage). Russia's military was pounding at Germany, which was out of place considering Russia is usually a pushover. At times, I sat around and let the Russians weaken the German cities, and German-held Talinn (the Germans never took anything more, and the Austrians couldn't take anything), which helped. The Austrians played poorly, and I'm pretty sure they were throwing units at Russian cities, the Russians already having machinegunners, in small amounts, and throwing some Austrian Cavalry at me which didn't do much damage. Berlin took some effort, in fact, a bit of effort, and once I took it, Stettin was a pushover, and then it was a few turns of going after East Prussia, Talinn, and signing peace. The last two cities were tough because the German navy was in the Baltic bombing the Finnish city west of St Petersburg, and they started shelling my troops in Konigsburg.
In Africa, I lost Libreville to German forces, although I resisted for one turn, and my garrisons didn't get wasted. I also destroyed improvements as I could, and set the citizens to do nothing, so the city would starve a bit by the next turn. The Germans couldn't do much against my waves of Legionnaires (I've not needed nor have I built a single Colonial Cavalry yet, I use Colonial Infantry and Legionnaires) which took Togo and Kameroon by the time I signed peace.
In Asia, I took Tsingtao before I signed peace.
Then it was somewhat of a lull between storms. I knew war with Britain was inevitable; Britain always seems to attack me no matter who I am. It's annoying, but keeps me on edge, and thus, more able to fight back.
The British did attack me, and now, week 5 of 1901, the British hold Nairobi, Lusaka, Livingstone, South Africa, and Zanzibar, along with Gibraltar, Malta, Cyprus, near Africa. Everything else they own in Africa is now mine. In Asia, I took Shanghai, Hong Kong, the Malaysian Peninsula, Rangoon, and I'm finally cutting a swath into India.
However, that's not to say the war was easy. I utilized terrain so I could mop up their forces without losing much of my own. I lost very few cities due to my policy of purely military build up. In fact, I have built no improvements aside from small wonders that have become available so far. All my money goes into rushing production of military units, and all my production goes towards the military, no matter what city I have. In my opinion, it was the only way to effectively wipe the floor with Britain. Additionally, I had the luck of the fact the Boers were at war with Britain, Germany at war with Britain, as well as Portugal being at war with Britain. Germany+Austria vs Britain has existed for a while, almost as long as when Russia and the German/Austrians fought, and the others happened afterwards. My focus purely on military was obviously assisted with the fact Britain had to focus on other nations in Africa as well, and not just purely on me.
But, there's an obviously huge cost to all of this. I'm severely lacking in science, and in any improvements. I've literally constructed *nothing*.
all valid schools of thought re strategy thanks for sharing!
i'll play devil's advocate for a hot second and suggest an early invasion of the Home Islands. of course, marshalling the resources to pull something like this off is difficult. and it is indeed a pretty big early game gamble. but i know for a fact that the longer one waits to invade England et als, the more difficult it'll be. i remember some play tests where London had 100+ units in it
i'll have to contact Balthasar about the map thing. i agree that it could be expanded some to show the entire map. and i'm a step ahead of you w/ the Red Cross thing it's already been changed (when i redid the buildings some time ago).
12 march update
i'm knee-deep in the air unit audit and have polished off GB, France, Italy, and most of the generic lines. this is all taking longer than i thought b/c i have been reformatting the lines a bit. by this i mean that i've been rearranging the upgrade paths and the prices for all of the existing air units.
the upgrade lines now follow a shorter path. this means that the first gen air units will now upgrade directly (not obsolete it) to the 2nd gen ones and the 2nd to the 3rd and so forth. this will accomplish two main things: it'll remove a redundant unit in the city build queue (past upgrade path had it every other gen so 2 gen's were showing up in the build queue) and it'll make each unit air more appealing to build since it upgrades relatively quickly (as opposed to before where we had to wait 2 generations).
i've also chopped down the costs for all air units in an effort to boost their appearances and the make them more appealing...to build.
now, i haven't tinkered too heavily w/ the existing air unit format. i mean, yes, i added one more generation onto the list (biplane fighters VI, middle of the last era). but this is not a big change. i also found a bug from the last version where i failed to award HP bonuses to later-game german aircraft but i did for english and french ones (!). that is fixed...gen's 1-3 for the high end civs get no HP bonus, the 4th gen one gets +1 and the 5th and 6th get +2. the "high end civs" are britain, US, france, and germany. and this HP bonus is mostly the product of pilot skill.
now onto an explanation about the generic air unit lines...this is perhaps the greatest overhaul of the air unit section imho. while the high end civs have their lines and additions at the end of the tree, i've decided to loosen the historical grip i prefer to work under a smidge and grant mid level civs and lower ended ones a set of aircraft to build. i realize that it may sound like a stretch but hear me out russia, italy, lowlands, and a few other euro civs will get a bunch of "export" models and it's right in line w/ what they all got before...this is the 1st tier of these "export" units and the only real discernable difference between these and the actual french ones (ie the export units are all french) is one less HP for the back-end air units like the spad13 and potez 25 (+1 HP for the export models whereas the french ones get a +2 - let's face it, french pilots were just better than italian or russian ones and this ought to be reflected in-game [albeit minimally]).
in addition, i'm having to plug in duplicate entries into the editor in order to keep w/ the upgrade chain. for example, italy, which i worked on last night for a little bit, gets (as has gotten in v3.0)the following:
Piagio P.2 (new)
now, if i left italy in there to build the french aircraft (as it was in v3.0; ie france and italy could build the exact same unit), there'd be an upgrade issue with the SPADXIII-->P.2 since the french SPAD would upgrade to the french Potez 25 (not the export version, the french one). so i went in and gave italy their own line of air units so as to preserve and lock in their upgrade abilities. i mean, i don't want any 'dead end' units where they can't upgrade or become obsolete (another issue i'll expound on later, especially w/ naval units).
the gist of it will be to have the air units not become obsolete like other unit lines but to open up an upgrade opportunity for all air units.
the 2nd tier of export units are less complicated...all civs outside of the aforementioned (high end civs and some medium leveled civs who had those upgrade chain issues like italy) save for those that had some sympathies to the Axis powers (notably A-H, Turks, and probably the Boers) will get french export air units.
SPAD S.VII (biplane fighters IV)
SPAD S.XIII (biplane fighters V)
Potez 25 (biplane fighters VI)
Breguet 14 (biplane bombers II)
Farman F.60 Goliath (biplane bombers IV)
this will likely be the generic line for all civs that fall outside of the high end category and in the category like italy (the us falls into this as well although i haven't gotten to her yet). so what this means is that every civ will now be able to build aircraft...which was a point made by some a while back that it'd be nice to have certain smaller civs be able to at least jump into the fray (more on this at a later time, this will apply some to the boers were i'm thinking of granting them access to some german stuff if the conditions are right).
i know that this all seems terribly convoluted however, in a nutshell, what i'm trying to accomplish here is to streamline it some (ie upgrade chain adjustments) and to expand the air unit industry to everyone...and to make it a little more appealing to play w/ mid and lower level civs
Actually Leopold, I took a page out of your book and turned the alliance w/ A/H off as well. For some reason though, they started the game at war with spain- must've fiddled with one too many things. Ah well- I used it as an excuse to wipe out A/H early on, for peace of course.
As for the war, things are going swimmingly. USA took a city or two in America, and like I said the Boers went on a rampage. Portugal snuck by and yoinked Cape Town from em, and I have even seen the Abyssinians besieging a British town here in Africa. I landed the continental troops and took Alexandria, and I plan on beginning The Grand Nile Campaign, where I seize all British cities along the Nile.
In Asian news, they have lost cities as well: Both Russia and the Ottomans took a city on Britain's border with the Persians. France has not lost a city in Vietnam yet, and Chinese forces are closing in on Shanghai.
Not everything is good, though: the British took all of Madagascar from the french. Aw well, it happens.
The boers are pretty fun. In my game as them i control all of africa south of the congo.
How about a Lafayette Esquadrille Wonder that produces air units?
Hokay, after 20 turns of war, this is where the world stand. Prepare for biig pics (in spoilers, of course)
First, africa. I will cut it into two parts: North and South.
In north africa, it was me and France all the way. I grabbed the cities that separated my colonies, and then started the Grand Nile Campaign. Alas, France had different ideas and seized a couple of the cities before me. I mostly ignored Mombassa and the two former Italian colonies, and France ended up grabbing two of them. Abyssinia got to the third (well, the siege of that city lasted a good 15 turns) and razed it! Gah!
As for South Africa, it seemed like everyone wanted a share. Like I said, the Boers were scary, busting in with a huuuge stack of infantry, taking one town and razing another. Portugal managed to sneak one in, and I mopped up the rest.
Want a laugh? Look at Madagascar. First French, then British, it finally ended up in the hands of two South American powers!
Then India- I expected bad thing here. I though Britain would expand and take all of the French cities. They ended up taking none, though! In fact, they LOST ground- not to France, but to three other powers! Wow! I did not expect that.
Not to mention they are getting bruised all over the Americas, too. They have few cities left in Canada, and their colonies in Central America, but they have been booted from South America by I believe La Plata. AND I shanghai'd Shanghai from them.
Now what was the total sum of all this? Now, they still have their Australian and most of their Indian colonies, but being thrashed in Africa and the Americas has to do a number on them, right?
Right. Check this out:
Ooh, looks like someones on the mat! They have dropped out of first in territory, and I am only a percent or two behind them in population.
Some interesting things: Even though a lot of cities changed hands between the AIs, very few razings. The two in Africa by the minor civs- one very early on in Spain by A/H, and a Russian city waaaay in the northeast by some British troops. So thats a good thing, cause it means more for me to conquer. After all, if too many cities are burnt, then I can't get the domination, can I?
None of them will with the no-raze patch... On a scenario like this I would use it. Sounds like you're having fun.
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