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SCENARIO: Age of Imperialism; 1895-1924, Deluxe Version

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by El Justo, Aug 2, 2004.

  1. eazyhasaids

    eazyhasaids Prince

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    Interesting article on Danish Military power during this time period. Has a bunch of info on their ships of the period. Whenever you get back to finishing this up it could be a nice way to get more use out of the Denmark resource.

    http://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/Historien/1865_1913/FlaadenFra1865Til1913.htm

    On American power, I wouldn't think it to be unreasonable to nerf their first genereation infantry a tad maybe make them similar to the japanese infantry.
     
  2. Babylon746

    Babylon746 Warlord

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    Definitely interesting.
    But does the AI in fact upgrade it's hulls into the relevant king-units in AoI? My games rarely reach so far that they get the chance to do it, so what is the general verdict on that?
     
  3. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Canis Latranscendental

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    What has always left me jaw gaping is that America's colonial infantry match their homeland's in overall quality. That is a MASSIVE advantage, 10.8 troops EVERYWHERE. In some ways, that would make the USA the easiest position by far - at least the British still have to worry about being swamped overseas unless they get some machineguns in place. Unlike the Americans, who can waltz in, spam 10.8 infantry, and against 7 or 8 attack Infantry, not worry anywhere near as much provided they engage in aggressive defense.

    Another way to think about it, is the USA can produce its infantry overseas and let the homeland handle the industrial-level production. Unlike say France, Germany or Britain, which have to divide their - much smaller - industrial territories between Infantry, Cavalry, and all the other Industrial builds. That or pull a Napoleon, but that's easier said than done. :p

    America was a great power, and unmatched at home(indeed, Britain's war strategy, AFAIK, was occupying a few major cities then hoping for reinforcements, as Canada simply did not have the means to hold out long against the USA), that much is true, but I'm with the opinion that troops should be lower quality like Japan's, albeit not as bad as the bottom of the barrel powers. Come WW1, of course, when America actually began flexing its muscles against competent powers, I can see justification for better units.

    Having 9.9 units, furthermore, would allow for a Japanese-esque "build the same units everywhere" advantage that doesn't seem too unfair. Never mind, having weaker units in Colonial territories represents resistance to colonialism, I feel.

    That said, at least they're not 10.10. America also needs to wait until it unlocks Col. Admin, but given they don't usually have many colonies until later on, that's not much of a setback.
     
  4. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

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    the US military at the turn of the century was unlike any other major power of the era. the main colonial civs had colonial armies composed mostly of indigenous troops led by europeans. yes, they used european weapons, were trained in modern military tactics, and were led by some excellent officers. however - the US did not operate a colonial army in the true sense like britain, france, germany et als. they relied on volunteers from the US. no indigenous troops (with some slight exceptions later on in the PI and cuba) fought under US command. they were all Americans. i implore those who don't believe me to look up some of the battles in the Spanish-American War and review the OOBs, quality of troops etc. they were FAR SUPERIOR to any colonial outfit. better equipped, better training, better morale. i could go on and on. with this said, no reduction in the 10/8 stats. they are like that for a reason!
     
  5. RickFGS

    RickFGS Deity

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    @PBEM Age Of Imperialism last call - Game is about to start, roster is full, but there is still one possible opening for a late comer to take on the fate of a non colonial power, such as China or Brazil... Game will start tomorrow, the 28th Jan >> here! <<
     
  6. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Canis Latranscendental

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    Ah, I guess that all makes sense then.

    At the very least, they have an 8 defense. Provided you catch them on the defensive(which is very possible, as it'd be a lot easier to gain a foothold against the USA in colonial regions; just gotta be sure to beat them to Mexico!), the bonus is negligible as most civs have colonial units with that defense.

    I do find Klyden's strategy guide useful, but a bit odd - why does he recommend invading your immediate neighbors? If I was a minor European power, I'd want to eat the other minor powers - the Lowlands, Portugal, etc. All it takes is one or two RoPs. Never mind in the case of the Lowlands, it's quite profitable - 5 VP locations in such a small, confined space! It also is an excellent base of operations to use against Germany, France or Britain. Especially Britain - airships will tear them to pieces and the once-proud Royal Navy will disintegrate without Iron and Coal.

    Perhaps a city can be placed south of Tegucigalpa to strengthen the Central American position somewhat? Some basis for it is that the Nicaragua Canal was at one time a proposed project and of major interest to the Americans in particular; what changed this was the USA ended up buying France's stake in Panama instead.

    Speaking of canals, another idea. Perhaps a Panama/Nicaragua Canal wonder? I'd imagine you could only build it in Panama and theoretically the other Central American city. There would be a phony wonder that grants no benefits in each of these cities(unless there's on there already) to act as a prerequisite for construction, and once built, grants tax/production benefits in the city. A small incentive to seize the city, I'd imagine. Likewise, Alexandria could probably be given some Suez Canal wonder from the start(which will strengthen the British, yes, but based on how they fare in my games lately, I'm convinced that maybe they could use some beefing).
     
  7. Sir Sam Vimes

    Sir Sam Vimes Duke of Ankh

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    100% correct. The US was way ahead of the pack when it came to training and tactics. I guess having such a big population helped, because they always had more people of fighting age who they could draft
     
  8. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

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    it was indeed an all 'volunteer' force, a large source of pride with the history of the american army, especially abroad (expeditionary). the draft was not instituted until the first ww (in the scope of AoI). the US did not have a colonial dept of their govt. yes, there was a de facto colonial govt in place in the PI, cuba, PR, and guam. but part of the american uniqueness of this era was that they were never a colonial overlord before. factually speaking, they were the anti colonialist's champion, the body politic that the oppressed looked up to since the US colonials knocked of great britain a century+ prior. and this was used by american officials when 'assimilating' the natives (to varying degrees of course). some natives bought into, others did not. but in the end, the US was unlike any other colonial participant, once a colony herself, now at the top of the food chain. these things were all taken into account with the US civ.

    i'll look at the remaining phony wonders for the next version. i recall that i nipped from them to add in some of the new wonders.
     
  9. TomYo689

    TomYo689 Emperor

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    King King Alfonso of the Spanish
    Is there supposed to be 2 kings for the king?
     
  10. Dumanios

    Dumanios MLG

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    There's also Tsar Tsar Nicholas of Russia, and I believe Kaiser Kaiser Wilhelm II of Germany.
     
  11. Bogatyr

    Bogatyr Chieftain

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    And Keyser Keyser Söze of the usual suspects.
     
  12. geminisama

    geminisama Resident Batman

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    Alright, I ran into something odd. Montreal has the Old Port of Montreal dummy wonder, which produces vet sea units. Well, despite Montreal having access to the sea, via Quebec, it can't actually build any naval units, not even the transport. How would I go about rectifying this?
     
  13. Babylon746

    Babylon746 Warlord

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    You could make a continuous stretch of coast tiles from the Atlantic to Montreal (e.g. turning the two hills E and SE of Quebec into coast, or moving Quebec 1 tile SW and turning the tile it's currently on & the tile SW of that into coast); negatives: no complete railway line Montreal-Halifax anymore (you could just lay a new one south of the St. Lawrence, but that one would be within easy reach of US troops), and no possibility to move units from Quebec either to the north or the south (depending on which side of the St. Lawrence it is on).

    Turning one of the coast tiles into a sea tile isn't an option, as sea tiles need coast tiles on each side - Canada wouldn't be recognisable any longer.

    A much easier option, in my opinion, would be to change the benefits of the Montreal wonder into something else, another +1 production maybe.
     
  14. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter King

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    Yes, they will upgrade their King unit Hulls.
     
  15. Russ Haynes

    Russ Haynes Chieftain

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    Hello everyone!

    It has been quite a while since I posted. We had a problem with our computer crashing and once I finally reinstalled Civ 3 I realized I could still play AOI 4.1! Yeah!

    The problem I have run into is that the No Raze patch doesn't seem to be working. Will I need to reinstall the scenario or is there a way to get it working without going that far. Everything else seems to be working okay, but the map is littered with razed cities in 1909, so I really need to start over as Spain.

    I found the readme file and have tried to run the game from that spot theough the conquests2.exe (for Civ 3 Complete), but I get an error that binkw.dll can't be found. Is that the No Raze file?

    Thanks!

    Russ
     
  16. Bogatyr

    Bogatyr Chieftain

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    Regarding the non-colonial powers, I was wondering what the rationale was behind not letting them build workers. I have no problems whatsoever with their weak unit lines. That's just how it was. But the one thing these poor saps did have going for them was abundant supplies of cheap but crappy labour. None of the non-colonials have the industrious trait (rightly so), but I think giving them the ability to make an equivalent to the colonial conscript worker might be a good idea. Take China, for example. Given the size of its territory, its extremely under-developed state at the start of the scenario, the lack of the industrious trait, and the inability to build workers the Chinese player has essentially no ability to develop his/her land with the few civil engineers that are auto-produced. I feel this is a significantly bigger disadvantage than the poor unit line (with which I totally agree), since a good player can compensate by just building a lot of crappy troops but there's no way to build more workers at present. The same goes for the South American civs. Huge territories, very under-developed, and no ability to rectify this. I've tried playing as Brazil, Chile, Argentina, China, etc. It's just not all that fun and the main reason is that there's no way to improve your territory in a reasonable amount of time. Could we let them build conscript workers too? Another solution would be letting them build their own NON-colonial conscript workers but making them twice the cost to represent these civs' less efficient labour mobilization (although this is already represented by lack of the industrious trait).

    I've created a mod file in which colonial conscript workers can be built by non-colonial powers. After playing many a game as various colonial powers using this modification, I don't think it makes the non-colonial AI significantly stronger. It certainly does not change the balance of power... things played out amongst the AI pretty much the same. What it DOES do imho is make playing a non-colonial power much more fun for the human player.

    In any case, a recuring issue in this forum is the weakness of the non-colonial powers. As El Justo and others have pointed out, they WERE weaker and their unit lines and lack of access to the industry resource reflect this. I agree 100%. However, I also agree with some of those who say that the non-colonials just aren't all that fun to play. I'm firmly against strengthening their unit lines... but I think letting them build workers like the colonial powers might make them more playable.

    What say ye?
     
  17. Babylon746

    Babylon746 Warlord

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    I'd try the following:
    1) Overwrite the current conquests.exe with the backup file (the original .exe, with No Raze Patch).
    2) Overwrite that one with the other .exe in the No Raze Patch compared to the one you've used until now.


    @Bogatyr: Sounds interesting. I can see only one problem: If one creates a new unit ("conscript worker" or some such) with double the cost of the colonial conscript worker, will that new unit (only buildable for China, Brazil etc.) still be capturable?
    Of course that could be circumvented by simply making the colonial conscript worker buildable for them; the AI doesn't go worker-crazy in AoI, so it wouldn't give them too much of an edge.
     
  18. ChaosArbiter

    ChaosArbiter King

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    In before "It's not historical!"

    China actually can take over Conscript Workers from the French, but yeah, it's pretty much impossible for the NCPs to develop their countries effectively which is terribly annoying.

    The Conscript Workers are currently geared to require the Colonial Government building; you could remove that requirement (meaning you only need the tech to create them; for that matter, some of the Colonial buildings don't make sense as pure Colonial buildings).

    Agree.
     
  19. El Justo

    El Justo Deity

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    colonial conscript workers do not require any buildings. they require the Colonialism resource.

    the colonial building line is a conglomeration of colonial admin stuff, industrial and/or technological stuff, and culture. how does this "not make sense"?
     
  20. Bogatyr

    Bogatyr Chieftain

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    CA: It has nothing to do with the colonial building. If you go into the rules section under units and check the colonial conscript worker you will see under the "abailable to" section that only the colonial civs are highlighted. Making colonial conscript workers available to non-colonial civs is a simple matter of selecting them in the unit's "available to" entry. Needless to say, they will still only be able to build them with the colonialism resource... but they all have that (except Mexico, but it has industry in its capital to counter-balance this fact).

    Babylon: I would prefer just making the regular colonial conscript worker available to them. This is what I've done in my own game. It has no noticable effect on how the AI plays out. I've played several games with it, including one where I was the Balkans and just sat and watched what the AI did... no difference. The AI non-colonial powers didn't do any better with colonial conscript workers available to them. As far as I can see, letting the non-colonials build them doesn't make the game any less enjoyable when playing a colonial power, but makes it much more enjoyable when playing a non-colonial power.

    El Justo: I guess my issue, aside from playability, is how does it make sense that (for example) Scandinavia can theoretically produce more man-power out of the Danish Antilles than can be produced by the entire nations of China or Brazil?
     

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