Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by El Justo, Aug 2, 2004.
are you referring to actual shield counts for building stuff?
Fair enough, I'll try it in my next game. Always wanted to go for Brazil...
Not to nit pick, but what's the reasoning behind production improvements only putting out 1 shield? By mid and late game it doesn't really matter, but it's always struck me as odd, that a trading post for example, has the same production output as the quite expensive manufacturing center.
the +1 shield is actually a 25% increase in shield production. +2 is 50% +3 is 75% etc.
Ahh, I never knew that. Thanks for clearing it up.
Also, while you're here, a few pages back you posted some minor map changes and a handful of new cities. How did you go about doing that? I thought this scenario was at the hard coded capacity.
Huh. Coulda sworn that my colonies couldn't build them until after I'd made the Govt Building ... oh well.
Thanks! I finally figured it out. It had been so long since I messed around with it I didn't remember how simple it was.
The no raze patch allows you to add more cities. I've probably added near 50 new ones and havnet hit a problem
El Justo: No, what I mean is that since Brazil and China can't build workers, they have no way of producing colonial conscript worker units (what I meant by man power). Scandinavia, on the other hand, can continuously produce them in its one puny colony - Danish Antilles. Sorry I phrased it in kind of a confusing way. I was just using it as an example of why I think non-colonial powers should also be able to build concript workers... It just doesn't seem right to me that a colonial power with one tiny colony can use it to pump out a massive work force of conscript workers, but giant non-colonial countries like China and Brazil have absolutely no way of expanding their labour force (other than waiting for the auto-produced civil engineers who are nowhere near plentiful enough to actually develop their territories).
So, ya, basically all I was saying is that I think the non-colonial powers should be able to build conscript workers too. The one thing they did have historically was abundant supplies of labour, letting them build them doesn't unbalance the game, and it makes the non-colonial powers much more fun to play without adversely affecting the colonial powers. That's all.
When put this way, I'm definitely inclined to agree. It does seem ridiculous when one thinks about it. Plus it sounds like everyone wins in the end, especially a human player.
the industrial base for non colonial powers in the beginning of the 20th paled in comparison to those of the colonial powers. the infrastructure simply wasn't there. yeah, brazil and china are gigantic. but they were nothing compared to germany, britain, the US, france, even italy, austria and the scandinavian countries. shoot, china was extremely backwards and fragmented. i understand your point about a single locale pumping out colonial workers. but it's like this for a reason. the lesser powers simply did not have the infrastructure to compete with the big dogs. they can still autoproduce the engineers though. so it is not a total wash, just a slight handicap.
I suppose people can't help having desires to MOD what has been completed.
As I am certain most of you know, this game was given great thought and consideration concerning the reality of history and its accuracy... El Justo is "The Man" concerning History
On the other end of the spectrum, countries like Argentina/Brazil/China etc. can have exactly the same "workforce" as mainland Germany/France/Austria-Hungary etc. - as they cannot build workers in their homelands either.
that's true as well. however, at the end of the day, there is no escaping the notion that these countries just were not advanced enough to be able to be on par, industrially speaking, with the big boys. it wasn't until probably the 1980s where these emerging nations were able to fully integrate themselves into the global industrial network dominated by the likes of the US, UK, france, germany etc.
one aspect i was thinking of earlier today is a mechanical issue with the lesser civs being able to build some type of colonial worker or a derivative. it's the fact that the Colonialism resource is needed for the colonial/overseas worker builds that prevents, say, a civ like china or brazil from being able to have a traditional 'overseas' worker. by that i mean that the Colonialism resource appears on the map in the home areas for these lesser civs. so they would essentially be able to build them at home and abroad if they are fortunate enough to capture overseas (or even neighboring) territory. so from a design standpoint, it is extremely balky to achieve a workaround. if one wanted to be technical, a worker unit tied to the Industry resource could be in play (ala the Overseas Expeditionary foot unit). it's not too much of a stretch imo, assuming a lesser civ can capture areas of the map that have Industry. it's the carrot line of thought...
Or perhaps a wonder that autoproduces them(requiring industry and a hidden tech) so that conquered regions can't start pumpin out workers faster than the original owners. Similar to the civil engineer autoproduced, except as a kind of "forbidden palace".
it still seems rather clunky.
What about having the "special city wonders" (Paris, Brussels, Berlin, London, New York etc.) auto-produce Civil Engineers?
Just an idea I had.
Lesser civs building "Skilled Technicians" with the Industry resource sounds about right. During this era and for quite a long time after they spent a lot of effort trying to attract such specialist labour to emigrate from over in Europe/The US
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