Discussion in 'R.E.D. World War II Edition' started by Gedemon, Aug 13, 2012.
I think city-states should be able to build at least infantry, if not lower strength tanks/aircraft
Oh, no, that was just because I didn't realize I also had to capture Naples to knock Italy out of the war. I just thought there wasn't any scenario specific endgame coded. Once I read about the four victory cities for each major combatant, I went back and took Naples, and I got a little victory screen with a bunch of allied officers grinning over French newspapers stating the war was over.
I've tried alternate history a few times and it never really worked out. It looks like most of the powers are balanced for their historical entry dates, so taking alternate history as Russia can mean a quick death if Germany attacks you in 1940.
I suppose you could use it as Germany to invade more neutral nations, but since the neutrals are pushovers, that would seem to be making the game too easy.
So I'm not sold on alternate history either. It's nice to have the option I suppose, but to be REALLY attractive I'd like it to be more a series of "what if" events. What if Germany had been able to bring Spain into the war? What if the Germans had invaded Turkey rather than Russia, so as to dominate the Mediterranean?
But that would require a hideous amount of work.
Also I've found I'm not hugely fond of the "fall of" events. I've played with them on and off, but I think I prefer them off. The biggest problem for me is the Fall of France event. It's never crashed my computer, but I just don't like how it plays out. Vichy France is this annoying bump on a log you can't get rid of. In my Russia game, after I liberated all of German occupied France in early 1943, Vichy France remained. They don't do anything, but they also never leave.
Historically, there was a lot of fighting against the Vichy by the Allies. Although there was technically no "war," it was very much a technicality. Between 1940 and 1942 the British and Free French (and then Americans) invaded several Vichy possessions, including Dakar (which failed), Gabon, Syria (where news of the fierce fighting was suppressed even at the time), Madagascar, and Algeria (which lead to the end of the Vichy overseas).
Vichy really should be a belligerent once its formed and after Mers-el-Kebir. It was effectively one, even if the Allies avoided saying so. It also adds more of a fight around the world, and allows conquered Vichy possessions to go to the Free French, building them up a bit before the return to Metropolitan France.
Anyway, for my last kick at the cat I played Britain. Deity again, events and alternate history off.
Britain is also hardmode. Not quite as bad as France (although that could have been changed had I played with events on perhaps) but close. Unlike France whose sole job is to hold the front, you have responsibilities across the map, and the big thing is knowing when and where to commit your forces.
In this game sent a massive BEF to France, which was good, because the French spent all their time building banks and bases and military academies, and produced virtually no troops. I managed to Hold the Germans back until June of 1940, when the Italians invaded from the south, and the French couldn't do much to stop them. With the whole of the French south collapsing to the Italians, and my forces completely tied down fighting the Germans from Strasbourg to Amsterdam, I gave up France as lost and withdrew to Dunkirk. The Italians JUST missed taking Paris to a lunging German spearhead. In the end, Italy conquered all of what normally becomes Vichy France, plus Caen and Bordeaux, with the Germans snapping up the rest, including the Breton peninsular.
During this period my key victories were wiping out much of the German and Italian fleets. The naval battles were large, and gave my fleet quite a battering, but we came out controlling the waters around the UK as well as the eastern Med. I enjoyed them, and the AI wasn't TOO hideous. Axis destroyers aggressively hunted my subs, forcing them to withdraw from torpedoing the battleships, while the enemy fleets came in large groups, rather than one at a time. With my subs getting pounded I had to do things the hard way, engaging battleship to battleship in some serious gunfire exchanges. Ultimately I won without losing a single ship, but it felt like the AI at least tried.
I immediately redirected my air force to North Africa, and proceeded to halt the Italian steamroller there through massive amounts of bombing and naval gunfire support. Linking up with tanks landed in Algeria and crossing French Africa, we had all of Libya mopped up by the end of 1940, and were poised to invade Sicily.
I also dispatched a significant force to Habbaniya in preparation for the Iraqi war, but this never happened. Iraq booted me out and aligned with the Germans, but I never actually got a war with them. Possibly because events were off. Because I now had several divisions now trapped in Habbaniya (no more free passage) this was not on, so I went into IGE and conquered them, which returned them to "Allied." This put me in a good position to invade Iran, which I did, because I desperately needed to increase my unit supply.
Unit supply was the crippling limitation for me as Britain. What really hurt was that when convoys spawned they cut into my available supply, so I could have five or six convoys on the map, and be down 12% or 16% production. Convoys should probably be supply free.
While Germany was invading Russia, I was invading Italy, capturing Naples by the end of 1941. By then the Germans were making serious headway in Russia, capturing Minsk, enveloping Kiev, Leningrad and Smolensk, and with armoured forces driving right through the Caucasus and into Iran. My Iranian army defeated this spearhead, then entered the Soviet Union to render assistance. By happy AI chance, the French also ended up sending a small force, and we ended up converging on Kiev. I formed the "1st Allied Army" out of two cruiser tank divisions, and a British infantry division and artillery regiment, plus two French foreign legion battalions and a heavy tank division. We continued to fight there for the remainder of the war, keeping Kiev from harm.
To take the pressure off the Russians, I decided to invade France in early 1942. My advance in Italy had drawn massive attention from the German and Italian air forces, with the Germans moving a force of some 12 fighters into Zagreb which shut down the bomber operations I needed to make headway against Rome. I relocated my air force back to England, and invaded at Brest, and Cherbourg. The Germans responded with a massive amount of panzers, while the Italians blocked me at Caen, and the whole venture nearly collapsed. I landed two sacrificial M3 Grant divisions west of Dunkirk with a shot at Paris in the hopes of drawing off some of the enemy, and it worked, allowing me to secure the Breton peninsular, and turn the fight around. For a couple of turns there tough I was seriously concerned that I was going to lose nearly my entire army.
After that though, things quickly went in my favour, and I had all of France save Metz and Strasbourg liberated by the end of 1942. I gave all my M3 Grants to France to give them an army, and to free up my supply for better units I was now building with British and captured Italian industry. By then I'd also taken all of Italy up to Trieste, containing the remaining Italian forces in Yugoslavia, where they and the Greeks battered away at each other without much progress.
Germany and the USSR were still shoving back and forth around Smolensk and Kiev, so I took the time to let the French reconstruct a bit while I built up an overwhelming force in Belgium and the Netherlands. While this was going on, I sent the bulk of Fighter Command into Russia and over the course of the first half of 1943 virtually annihilated the entire German air force. I unleashed my army in October 1943, crossing the Rhine and quickly sweeping to Berlin. With complete control of the skies, and their forces still fighting in the east nothing the Germans could do could even slow me down, and it was over by Christmas.
Overall Britain was a lot of fun. Some good naval, air and land action, with a wide array of theatres and problems, and a resource crunch that always kept things tight. The AI posed a challenge at several points, and I was glad that events made it virtually impossible to hold France (since otherwise the war would have become much too easy) and the Germans were doing quite well in Russia before I intervened. I would say this scenario is one of the best balanced of the lot (noting that I never had to face Sealion, which might have changed things, since I was totally set up to slaughter anything the Germans sent, and that might have weakened them in Russia).
One thing is that once I smashed the German fleet and bottled them up in the Baltic, I didn't have to face much of a naval threat in the Atlantic. There was a final "death ride" by Tirpitz and Gneisenau and several U-boats in mid 1942, but they were intercepted by the Allied Fleet (British, French AND Greeks by this point, and sunk by overwhelming force in the North Sea without getting very far). Maybe the occasional spawning of U-Boat "reinforcements" in the Atlantic would add to the naval war, and force a bit more escorting of convoys.
Overall though I really enjoyed how that game played out, so good job on the scenario construction for the British.
Oh, and the damage to manufacturies around a bombed city is a nice touch, but a way to conduct long range bombing missions would make it truly awesome. As an idea, previous Civ games had a way to conduct recon flights within range of your aircraft, revealing areas of the map. If you could send pathfinders to do something like that, so you could then send a wave of Lancasters to flatten Berlin it would be great.
As it was I never went in for strategic bombing, because you could only do it to cities in view of your ground and naval forces. If I was bombing a city on the front I was probably going to be taking it pretty soon with ground forces anyway. But a way to really shut down German industry while sitting in Britain would have added another dimension to the game.
How does that work by the way? I played as Britain on King difficulty and took every single Italian city and I still found a few infantry divisions showing up in the balkans. Do you have to kill of both italy and germany to knock them out?
I have been playing as Italy as Diety with scripted events on, in the 1939-45 European scenario and here is what I have found.
- Germany is usually unable to either conquer Poland, or France as of Jan. 1941.
- Being Italy I give Germany all the support I can, I conquer all of N.Afrika, most of Greece and Southern France, but Germany remains an impotent ally.
- France and England by the time of 1941 Jan. have more tanks than Germany and Italy combined, and completely halt Germany in her tracks.
- I have played several times and when Russia enters the war, we are pretty much finished, as Germany hasn't taken anything in France. Norway she has Narvik but is navally blocked by Britain. Italy (me) always takes Greece, Yugoslavia, N.Afrika, but again the computer Germany seems to have no ability to even finish Poland.
I would like to suggest a couple things: For scripted events maybe give them a dealine for the AI to acheive, but not in a negative way. I mean one time it took Germany until May 20th 1940 to take Poland, and of course by that time their western cities were smashed and in France's hands. I think that if we could have AI Germany somehow Focus on TWO objectives (Warsaw first, and after, and ONLY after it goes for Paris), then we could have a scripted events game where one could play as a minor power that somehow resembles history. I mean the war to a certain extent needs to be won by Germany if you play as a minor nation or there isn't a whole lot of fun into playing as Italy, or I imagine Greece because there is no enemy to fight (if Greece) and too many (Italy). Maybe a 'Fall of' event in favor of AI Germany would be in order?
I have seen Germany waste its airplanes bombing destroyers outside of Stetton for 10 turns in a row, I have read about how Germany just kicks butt, but unless I play as Germany they just plain suck arse.
Also, as Italy, I take Tusia, but I get no convoys from them. . .but France did?
This is an amazing game and I say thank you to the creator Gedemon.
If someone can give me a suggestion to make playing as Italy at least feasable to win, or at least not get completely wasted please tell me.
Oh, I forgot. There is one way. I can sneek all my troops into the English channel and then go for Paris myself, but it just seems so lame to do it like that.
THANKS AGIAN for this awesome mod!
Moderator Action: thread merged with the Europe 39-45 scenario thread
Short of playing both Germany and Italy in hotseat mode (I can't because it crashes), the next best thing is to use IGE nudge things in the right direction, such as teleporting some key units for capturing Warsaw, or giving Germany some extra units to help it invade France (after all you are playing as Deity . Of course, then you are morally obligated to turn around and help England and Russia when they start going stupid...
i don't understand why it'd be so bad to have triggered unit-spawns at the opportune time for all of these major offensives to ensure thatt he right country is making the right historical gains, at least in broad strokes. Poland, France, and Barbarossa for Germany, D-Day for England, maybe some silly africa for italy and a counter italian for the british in egypt.
It'd certianly move things along. The construction of operations are good and well, but half the time the friggin AI doesn't even build it.
thanks all for the feedback and game reports
There are a lot of points I agree too, and a lot of additions are still planned, so I'll try to make a quick recap.
- Minor civilization diplomacy
In previous version, all French colonies were declaring war to the allied with the Fall of France event. In current version, North African colonies became neutral (and just "friend" to axis to give them a boost in reinforcements), to prevent them from bombarding allied ships if they get a part of the French Air Force. The plan is to make them declare war when Operation Torch is launched (or using the real calendar), which I was planning to add next but then the convoy bug has taken priority...
Iran/Iraq is another issue here, the solution is to add what was planned in the development thread, a mechanism to add project that could represent diplomacy missions, and could be taken by both side at a certain time to move CS from neutral to ally. It will be important, as the railway from Stalingrad to Suez must be allied to allow convoy spawning from Atlantic to Suez for USSR.
A "fall of..." event for capital of CS that should not be invaded but "liberated" could be added for more CS. It already exist for North African French colonies (but ATM you'll have to use both "Fall of..." and "Alternate History" options to have it trigger on colony's capital city "liberation")
So if you play as France, I'd suggest to have "Alternate History" on if you use "Fall of" events and want to have a chance to recapture France if you lost Paris.
Annexation of southern France by the Axis is still planned when Operation Torch will be triggered.
In current version, only nations that had historically take part of WWII get an army spawning when they enter the war, but you can edit the OOB table quite simply to add armies to other CS in case you use alternate history. I'll do it when more diplomacy will be added to CS.
Side note about Free France, all ex-French land units could be "converted" to the Allied side after a (melee) fight. More chance if the ex-French unit is really low on health, or if you've attacked with a unit that won't deal a lot of damage.
There are 3 military operation projects already planned for North Africa that should help to balance that theater : reinforcements at Suez (from Asia colonies) for U.K., creation of Africa Korps for Germany, and Operation torch for the Allied.
Maginot and Siegfried lines are planned, but maybe as a AI bonus only.
Adding "Operation Barbarossa" as a project is not something planned yet, but relocating USSR western industry to the east is.
Axis allies in the Balkan will get more units, to balance Greek and USSR power there.
There is also something to keep in mind about balancing, it's the AI randomness, a game won't be like another, even with alternate history off, because the AI may choose to focus on building before units, play defensively or target a city. And that's something I don't wan't to change, I want it that way. There is no fun in recreating the war exactly as it was IMO.
Also, about "Alternate History", it's not a "free for all mode", but a way to give even more randomness will keeping a WWII "realist" background. The goal is to prevent a human player to concentrate all his force on one front knowing it has nothing to fear on another one until the real declaration of war date. With "Alternate History" on, removing your units from a border is a call for invasion from the AI there.
So for me it's a good thing that there are game reports above very different from what I've experimented during my play test, it means the current balance still allows different course for the war.
And of course there are still a lot to do on the scenario, I'm adding events chronologically, I'd say 1939 and 1940 are almost done, but there is still 1941 to 1945 to do...
Since the Poles have some UU, I think it's fair the Romanians should get some as well. I somehow found the time make Romanian reskins of the:
Skoda R-2 (Panzer 35(t))
Hope they aren't that bad
Hello all! I have a quick question, as I have now tried to implement IGE to manually tweak a couple things in this awesome mod, I have been experiencing some problems. First it seemed to work just fine, I could enter into IGE and edit and help the mod's slight imbalances. But, now I can only edit the major power I play as, and minor states. If i try and enter into say France, Germnay, or Russia I get a game pause, and then crash. Can someone adivise about these crashes?
1. Right click IGE
2. An options menu will come up. Check "Safe mode"
3. It should work fine.
I'll give it a try, thank you for your timely response.
@the civinator - works like a charm now, thanks!
I am playing this scenario as France on Prince difficulty. In the beginning I sent all troops and planes to the Western front, including all foreign troops. I bought some tanks and infantry for North African and Italian front. My North Atlantic fleet has destroyed the German navy and Britain takes care of the rest in the Baltic, and has merged with the Mediterranean fleet. The Italian navy has been defeated. I have taken Libya and in progress of defeating the Italian troops there, with 2 land units. I have taken Genoa with naval bombardment and two other land units. On the Western front I managed to push the Germans back and conquered several cities, but after Poland fell, I was unable to put a dent in the German army, more waves of troops came faster that I could kill them! I am extremely short on materials, while Germany still has plenty(can tell because they heal +5). And the German/Italian air force nearly killed off my 6 planes. Britain AI barely helps, never realizes it has cut supply lines and sent only a small force. Is there any strategy to defeat Germany? I'm willing to start over the game if needed.
Personnaly, to win with France, I only defend at the beginning (with the ground units). I try to keep Strasbourg as long as I can, and after I fall back to do another defensive line between Dunkerque and Rheims, just the time to establish my last defensive line just at the South of Dunkerque, then in front of Paris and Dijon, with all my units. And I do all what I can to prevent enemies to pass through the line. I keep generally 2 infantry units to defend against Italy, behind Nice.
In the mean time, I destroy german and italian navy, and I try to attack on the secondary fronts when I can (Norway, Libya...) with some units... I do this until USSR enter in war, and then Germany become less aggressive, so I start to attack. From this moment it's easier. This works for me, but I play on Deity.
(I use this strategy when I play UK too).
If someone wants to send me the Text File, I can write it up clean. Heck, do it with all of the countries and I'll fix them right up.
Hey Gedemon, have you started making operations for Africa? If you want I could have a go at them. I've been reading through the code and I've already started playing about with an operation sonnenblume
I hold on to strasburg and build a line around paris, dijon and amsterdam. The Germans scattered all lines and I was doomed. I retreated to england and prepared a landing (events off) but then it crashed.
Feel free to post the file here for other to use
Before adding new operations myself, I plan to first try to fix the movement of units on auto-move, and I may wait for BNW release for that.
This is my coding for both a sonnenblume operation and a reinforcement convoy for british forces in africa.
Sonnenblume spawns units off the coast of italy and lands them onto across the coast of libya. Also once the operation launches a reinforcement route from italy to tripoli for german troops will begin.
The convoy route will simply be from the little bit of water south of suez to suez. I didn't know any other way to do it. It will last as long as suez still belongs to the UK and as long as the UK libya is still at war. It only has a 15% chance of spawning, so it probably wont upset the game balance too much.
If you want to try it, go to \Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\R.E.D. WWII Edition (v 37)\Lua\ (or your equivalent folder) and replace the RedDefinesProjects.lua file with the one I uploaded. Then got to the Europe1940 folder and replace the ScriptEuro1940.lua file with my one. But keep a copy of the originals.
Also any exiting saves probably wont work if you replace the files. So a good idea is to switch the files whenever you need to.
Separate names with a comma.