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[SCENARIO + MOD] The Cold War (TCW:SF&B)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Scenarios' started by jlocke, May 22, 2006.

  1. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    (i'm now in the Heathrow airport)

    Good point MrManganese, I never imagined that was the problem, as I've not been able to try it multiplayer.
    and Leif. Good point, this might differentiate
    14 more seconds

    MAXRIGA

    change specialunit to NUKE,
     
  2. MrManganese

    MrManganese Chieftain

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    I repaired the maps folder the first time around, without ever realizing it was an actual problem. Only when I did a second install did I become perplexed that multiplayer wouldn't work. I guess the INI file setting singeplayeronly = 0 was an effort to fix it?
     
  3. MISER SVM

    MISER SVM Grand Procrastinator

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    @ Leif: Good point. Marx's original vision of an ideal society (the Communist society) was that of an anarchy, without chaos and exploitation but also without a state that controls everything (no I'm not an outspoken Marxist)- an utopia. Socialism, according to Marx, was just the transient state- the phase of the Proletariat's Dictatorship that should wipe out any differences between the classes.
    Another suggestion: How about renaming Communist State into Stalinist System? But this will be a touchy issue again .

    During my current (imperialistic and hopefully pan-Islamic) game as Saudi Arabia, Franco converted to Islam :eek: ! Well this can be explained as a sudden pro-Islamic shift in his foreign politics, believing that he could keep the remains of Spain's colonial empire by allying himself with the Islamic world.
    My plan (which is far away from being realpolitik) consists of four steps:
    I.a Unifying the Islamic world under the banner of the House of Saud (ideal constellation:UAR destroyed, PA with Iran), using Israel as a meatshield. Liberating the Muslims who live under anarchy (Barbarian cities).
    I.b Trying to spread Islam all the time (perhaps someone will convert voluntarily)
    II. Conquering the Maghreb, Al-Hind and Al-Andalus, re-converting the latter afterwards.
    IV. If the devilish non-Believers are not in possession of nuclear weaponry the liberation of our Muslim brothers living under Communist or Western tyranny will follow.
    Nevertheless, the forging of an Islamic alliance against the non-believers (the Reds and my Western "allies") finally shows some progress. I could conquer Baghdad before Israel or Iran.
    The UAR starts to like me. Yet those Persian Shi'ites are so hard to convince! They seem to hate me. :sad: This could become a clash of the theocracies. Despite our bad relations,
    I'll need Israel for that (as a short-time ally)- yet they are not ready to wage war yet. If they don't like me, then they will have to fear my wrath (but Saudi Arabia is so damn weak).
    I hope Nasser will keep supporting me.
    With my funds, Nationhood and Military Indoctrination I could revive the Prophet's empire... :)

    BTW: I hate it to be a nit-picker (the inclusion of Spain is great!- Finally I can fight Franco or use him as a pawn) but shouldn't it be be the Kingdom of Spain (it was proclaimed monarchy in 1947), as the Falange was staunchly monarchist? And a (at least in his early years) "fascist"/rightist dictator wouldn't choose Communist State as a favourite civic, would he (OK, that's a different story if you're an adherent of the Totalitarism Theory)? I'd recommend Hereditary Rule or Nationhood- hey, he wanted to restore Spanish monarchy in his last years... And this civics point out that Franco's rule was a military dictatorship. The title Caudillo would also be better than just general. And- that's also just a question of your preferences- I would give Spain a city representing it's North African possessions, like Melilla or Ceuta (Bilbao could be removed then). Let's just hope that the FLN doesn't try to take it (for the sake of realism).
    Furthermore, Islam should be present in Kashgar- Xinjiang is the home of China's largest Muslim minorities.
    And the two cities representing Indonesia should be called either Aceh or Banjarmasin (or Kuching, if you consider placing it by the coast- but it'd be British then)- just a typing/generalisation issue.
    On Religion: Finally, I fully accept your decisions. I was about to introduce Maoism as a separate religion, but that would isolate China too much. But I wouldn't say that Zen Buddhism is separate from Buddhism as a whole (remember that not only the Japanese are Zen Buddhists and that Zen originally came from India and China as dhyana or chan). The Taiji could indeed stand for the Oriental view of life (including, on the spiritual side Taoism etc. and on the more secular side Confucianism which also believes in the principle of Dao). It is so universal that Koreans and Mongolians included it in their national flag. Asian values/culture which South Koreans, particularly Singaporeans, Taiwanese, (contemporary) Chinese (it depends on your POV if you see the two formerly mentioned as a part of them) and Japanese claim to be the source for their economical post-war boom is still- in my opinion- a better choice. As a religion present in Seoul, Tokyo, Taipei, Hong Kong and Singapore it should give some economical boost, reflecting the stunning success stories of these countries/colonies/city states. 0% influence- that just doesn't seem to be right.

    PS: Please don't believe that I am Japonophobic (sp? shouldn't it be like that as in Japonic languages), just because I want Zen Buddhism to be changed and renamed.But the phenomenon of the East Asian boom is too important to be omitted, and in this way (you could also place markets, banks or even Wall Streets via WB in the respective cities or use the Free Market civic) it can be included (as a replacement for Zen, the US Japan base should still include Buddhists then, however). Especially the "Asians" among us (btw I am Overseas Chinese) should know what I mean (e.g. urging you to study all day and night, to respect your elderly relatives or paying homage to your deceased ancestors). Remember: the emphasis is on Asian which can mean Japanese, Chinese and Korean etc. values.

    PPS: OK, the thing with respecting the elderly is also present in almost any other cultures (and also in most so-called "socialist" states that are/were actually gerontocracies. Disrespecting the elderly has some "consequences" here... ). Sorry for my overlong post.
     
  4. pacesplace

    pacesplace Prince

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    I just started on 1.0 (thanks for making this great scenario even better), as France this time, and on a harder level. The map looks better, so that if I were playing with the US as I was on 0.6, my navy would be more effect against the USSR. In the game, China's leader is Mao Tsedung... Good name to call him if you're one of my allies, but not historically accurate. Also, why will NATO declare war on the Soviet Union so easily, when no one else even considers it?

    As I looked through each city screen, I noticed only Saigon and Paris started off with airports. Even more surprising to me was when I saw that only Saigon had a barracks... While playing as the US, I had more barracks to begin with, though I don't think I started with one in DC. And, thanks for adding more rebellious cities; I can use them to hold off the UK if war breaks out (don't tell Thatcher, but I want it to).

    Monday Edit: China made a permanent alliance with Iran, them Tsedung declared war on me. He too Marseilles and Lyon, and I quit, knowing I couldn't win... So, I decided play as the USSR! :goodjob: I decided to see if the AI could do better than me, so I signed an open borders agreement with Brandt, and invaded France. By March, the only city under French control on the map was Djibouti, but it had no defenders. I would have captured it, but I had no transports. I'm sending one now, so the lone Expeditionary Force shall crumble!
     
  5. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    you include many great suggestions... as far as Taoism... what do you suggest I do with it?
    (originally I didnt have it but then it started being founded, so I felt like I had to put it in to keep the other ones stable)
    As far as Franco's favorite civics, I didnt made his leaderheadfile, I think it was andy terry, and I just gave him the same starting civics as Tito. It really is too bad they can only have one favorite civic.
    I have noticed he sometimes converts to Islam. A bit strange, maybe I should put both NATO and Communism in Espana?

    also, do you really think Tangiers or whatever city the spanish had in N Africa was that important compared to Bilbao? prob I would have done Sevilla but I am trying to stop Algiers from being flipped by culture after the barbarian FLN captures it.


    Also, I dont think I had any cities in Indonesia. Just Singapore. I had bangkok originally but it kept flipping to french culture, which seemed stupid...

    do people think I should change pnom penh to Barb/Rebel instead of French?
    The idea is for france's colonial possesions to be lost within a year of the start, unless a human player devotes all their resources to airlifting there.

    as for aiports, I tried to limit the amount any civ starts with, for the interest of AI turn length, and to make it a bit more difficult and to favor capital cities.

    also,
    about NATO declaring war... this is a serious problem, I think that MaxRiga made the NATO leaderheaddefines, and it originally crashed on loading (though I think that was the civilizationinfo for NATO that he made) but if someone wants to go in and look at those leaderheaddefines (inside xml/civilizations/ ) and try to tweak what will make people go to war, that would be wonderful... I think also Margeret Thatcher declares war a bit to much.
     
  6. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    if people want to edit specific xml or graphic files, and post them on here, I can update the zip file when I get back home
     
  7. MISER SVM

    MISER SVM Grand Procrastinator

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    No...
    I totally undestimated Iran... only the Brits wanted to help me...
    But Khomeini kept spamming cheap units and he used those revolutionaries...
    I could only say bye-bye to the two holiest mosques of Islam... and to the rest of my kingdom.

    PS: Would you consider nerfing AA-guns? They can be deadly to infantry and tanks! Or is this intended?
    On Cambodia: Perhaps you could make Pnomh-Penh Chinese. Remember that the Sino-Vietnamese relations were quite frosty (there was even a short war) and Cambodia was closer to the PRC than to the Soviet bloc. AFAIK, Pol Pot was an ally to China until Cambodia was conquered by the Vietnamese. Barbarian would also be a good choice, but then with those rebels (it took ages to conquer the FLN as Egypt) guarding it. What about a Mao/Ho- Schism in the next version (not furious or annoyed, but at least cautious)?
    PPS: I tried to do some renaming/reassigning of civics in the WBS (for Spain only), but it failed. Somehow I had a CTD each time I tried to load the scenario. Well, Indonesia/Malaysia/Brunei is both represented by Aceh and Borneo.
     
  8. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    in the latest version, AA guns should be defend only. But I should probably make them weaker. 20 is too much. (equal to inf)

    PP was barb inthe past, but it flipped to culture. Maybe should get rid of it all together.
    I will post the relationships in teh future and we can tweak them together, because some of them i kind of guessed on. But its hard to represent 30 years of diplomacy with one number between -100 and 100

    if anyone can edit the leaderhead file to make some civs less warmongering that would be good

    also, i think i am going to add def pacts with USA and Israel and USA and NATO and maybe soviet and cuba too
     
  9. jbk

    jbk Chieftain

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    I'm not sure if this was intended or not, but Israel doesn't have a capital city. This makes it impossible to trade resources
     
  10. Register666666

    Register666666 Warlord

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    Sorry if this was mentioned before but, I encountered a frusterating glitch. :(

    I'm unable to get my F-15's (USA) transfered to my aircraft carrier, and now it seems i can't even transfer them from base to base, they just waste a turn usually and sit in the same city. I've tried the load option with the carrier in the city too and that doesn't work either. :(

    Hope you can fix it, I would love to continue this great mod you made, but it's kinda hard to play this game with an immoble airforce, heh.

    Let me know if you need more info.
     
  11. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    this was not intended. There is some question about international recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital, as opposed to Tel-Aviv.
    I will change this next chance I get back in the states.
     
  12. Mrdie

    Mrdie Founder of eRegime

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    I play as Israel, and I noticed that each city has...two of the same units.

     
  13. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    this is because Israel (and other nations I balanced to make stronger or weaker) have the same unit for multiple unitclasses.
    In that case, the IDF infantry functions as Israel's standard Inf and Mod Inf class... this is to prevent the AI from building a whole bunch of generic units when they have unique units, and the like.
    It does end up looking repetitive in the build screen.
    Mainly Ive been trying to get the AI to build the right unts for their civ, more or less.
     
  14. LaCiencia

    LaCiencia Data is Power

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    Great job, enormous effort, that many civ warriors appreciate and thanks.

    Now to remarks.

    My playing is with you last update, and no bugs noted what is remarkable. Playing as Cuba I tried to be historically accurated, and didn't change to USA flavor, that for game strategy make a lot of more sense than sustain Communism.

    I didn't create units at the beginnig knowing that USA won't attack me as long I maintain a defensive pact with USSR.

    Strangely I couldn't make a permanent alliance with USSR, nor China nor Yugoslavia, I have to wait several years and efforts since Egypt allow to form a permanent alliance with me. Was not my goal but better one permanent alliance than none, specially because the research tempo.

    I manage to colonize Mexico, take Haiti and further to colonize north South America, but was not enough, I achieved this by 1970. USA was in war with Vietnam (remarkable well to the real history!), but USSR nor China did anything about it.

    USSR and Yugoslavia made a permanent alliance, and declare and swept West Europe, in turn USA didn't make any effort to support their allies (well they don't have any pact evidently), further USSR took Vancouver.

    But nothing happens with Cuba, looks like USA was very busy with Vietnam, and USSR didn't give a cent by Cuba. So I was terribly bored by the of 70's and retired.

    Of course I was defeated as Cuba is hopeless in this scenario. Maybe would be better for the scenario purpose to make some small countries non-playable, and sorry for the small countries players (I know there are a lot of them among us), but for the sake of fun that is my appreciation.

    The inverted map arrangement is quite surprising, and honestly I didn't like it, for unknown reason my brain couldn't custom to this 90 degrees reorientation, but I recognize that is so valid as the other "normal" north up.

    Regards
    LaCiencia
     
  15. Narn

    Narn Warlord

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    the map does take a few hours to get used to it but i eventually did.

    I would love to see this scenario on a huge map
     
  16. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    This scenario is excellent. Only bug which I saw is that some ship was only red spladge. I found Cuba, Spain, Yugoslavia nad France too weak.

    I played for British and was in alliance with USA. I made great culture values, captured from barbarians Somalia, Western Sahara, Indonesia and some others, but didnt making units. Soviets allied with Franco abd Spain became communists. Problems started about 10 years later when Soviets declared war againist France. I was too weak so I chickenhearted didnt help, thinking about that France will have not problems. But suprisingly NATO had open boards with soviets and they with Spanish help captured France in two turns. Israel, which was in alliance with France make peace after they lost Tel Aviv. I didnt give spending money to units and play calmy on and on.

    But after 5-10 China started war with India/NATO, Israel wanted help and was captured by Muslims and soviets in first turn routed main of Nato, so I hadnt any another choice than declare war. My navy and aicraft started defending and cities started producing units. China/Soviets/Arab states/Spain made huge attack, captured all Europe without Hamburg, Bonn and scandinavian. Also Calgary and Vancouver were captured(!) I quickly bring my small army and defending NATOs cities, but soviet were attacking with a large numbers of units and I had to evacuated to defend Gibraltar, and my other colonies. All Natos cities within in Canada were captured and soviets started siege of my homeland. US allies were long time stealth, but now their aircraft came to help. India made peace treaty after some huge loses of cities.

    Americans started launching nuclear bombs, I launch also my 3 ones and it bring last chance for me. Every money which I begged from USA,NATO, Saudi Arabia or India and demanded from Castro, Tito, Vietnam or Iran went to units. After Americans took Vancouver and Calgary to their hands, situation started changing. The new war with Yugoslavia/Cuba didnt stoped it. My navy loaded many units and invaded to Scandinavia. From Gibraltar, Hong Kong, Singapur and Kuwait UN armors started attack with aircraft support. The fight was for every tile and I will not talk long about it. My gibraltar army section defeated Franco and liberated France,Germany, Italy and others NATOS cities, my invasion to scandinavia succesfully liberated Scandinavia and with Navy make another invasion directly to Berlin when my first army fighting in France. Kuwaiti army liberated Turkey,Greece, Norhern Africa and defeated Tito and Nassr. My armies in asia were less succesfull, and after some heavy loses(but loses of Chinese were 3x-4x more bigger) gave back to defend my cities. Americans captured Cuba and three Soviet cities in Siberia.

    My powers were exhausted(I gave back all cities without Spain back to NATOs hand, all defending units gave as presents and my other units higly only defending withou possible attack), so I accepted peace treaty where I took my born place Praha and settle peace for my allies. The cold war ended and I won only for time but with great fun.
     
  17. Narn

    Narn Warlord

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    Yugoslavia seems too week, the cultural output by the Soviet cities completely overwhelmes the Yugoslavians and they end up having no land at all except for the cities they have
     
  18. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    this is true in many games, but when a human plays Yugoslavia, they can prevent it... the best way for Yugoslavia to expand its borders is to get the other European powers to go to war, if any of the cities around it get captured, the Yugoslavian borders expand and they control much of s.e. europe.
    I wanted to include all nations as playable, even though it is quite a different game when playing as the minor states.
    In the next version, along with more missiles, I will include a disclaimer about the weaker nations, and try to make Yugoslavia and Cuba more powerful.
     
  19. jlocke

    jlocke Cold Warrior

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    WOW!
    this sounds like a very intense game. Good play to keep your head about you and stop that initial soviet onslought into Europe (which can be deadly)... I am amazed that the Soviets made it to capture Canada, which I have not seen before. Nice comeback to take back Europe and maintain colonies. I think you made a wise decision in holding onto Gibralter and the Gulf, which are the two points that Britain really needs to project power. Hong Kong is tough to hold for anyone, since the Chinese can combine so many forces to take it...
    So you won a time victory?
    and also, which ship was it that looked like a red blot?
    was it the Aegis cruiser? or something else?
     
  20. REDY

    REDY Duty Caller

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    Yes, I won on time. Aegis cruiser? Yes I think it is. But I will watch to game and answer with sureness...
     

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