SCENARIO PREVIEW: The Three Kingdoms: Extended Edition

[kane77077]

also sarevok, shouldn't you change or make one of the defeat conditions regicide? otherwise people will just be using their leader heroes as normal melee units.

I, personally, don't like the idea of regicide for this scenario.

1.)With Regicide selected as a game setting, all of a player's cities will be razed when the king unit is defeated. Without settlers, this could destroy whole sections of China. With settlers, the AI would begin building cities randomly all over the country, even in the areas meant to remain barbarian lands.

2.)If a ruler dies, his son or close advisor (any officer, usually the most qualified) could take over. (As was the case in the RTK games I played .)

 

[citizen001]

yeh that's true, i was thinking along the lines of trying to boost the value of the leader unit.

 

[Rocoteh]

This have been added to projects I will
allocate time to.

Rocoteh

 

[Sarevok]

This have been added to projects I will
allocate time to.

Rocoteh

I hope its not 1 too many. At least this one is very fast loading and easy to test right?

 

[CellKu]

Lu Bu Report cont'd:

Jan. 196:
Xiaopei got under heavy attack from the Wei. I wonder how the Greens were
able to defend their city, after they had attacked the Wei massively -
with at least (!) 10 units.

May 196:
The glorious armies of Lu Bu attacked Puyang and liberated the city of
the evil Wei! The previous battles seem to have weaken them enough. However,
the Wei started an immediate - but useless - propaganda. That victory
has boosted the production in Xuzhon.

Jul. 196: Lu Bu's armies started moving towards Chengyang.

Sept. 196: The Resistence in Puyang has ended. Pink units advance to Wuchao,
They will keep the Wei distracted - at least on that front. In the east
the Wei pile the defender in Chengyang.

Nov. 196: Some battles in front of Chenyang. The Wei send quite a lot of
troops from Qingzhou to defend that city - and some even to attack Xuzhou .
Well, they have been dealt with!
Btw, the traitor Liu Yong has signed a peace treaty with the Wei - and didn't
care for our - 20 turn lasting - pact. That will be remembered!!

Jan. 197: Poor Puyang, it's starving and starving. But can we waste
production for cultural achievements? Perhaps. Xuzhou spills out units every
turn - that production is really great!
Chengyang has been attacked and has fallen! The Lu Bu armies were doing
quite okay, but these medium pikemen of the Wei were a hard nut to crack!
(Well, not that hard if one would use marine infantries ). But
where were all these medium pikemen I saw advancing from Qingzhou?

Mar. 197: Yuan Shao came over with one unit - for an attack? I could
persuade him to pay me 60 gold for a peacec treaty. Afterwards, my
allies signed a peace treaty, as well.

May 197: But right after that Yuan Shao demanded 100 golf + a territory map.
Well, I am to busy with the Wei, so I gave him what he wanted.
Units of the traitor Liu Yong are passing my territory, but since he is
in war with the Yuan Shao I will let them through.
And Yuan Shu is getting busy again attacking the Wei - that is an ally!

Jul. 197: Poor Liu Yong, now almost everybody is at war with him - except me
and the Wei, I think. In only one turn at least five civs declared war
against him - and Yuan Shao and another guy were already at war with him.
Puyang has got a Shrine now, but that doesn't seem to change much.


Btw, I have some medium cavalries but I can't build any!
Looking at my green neighbors I see Xiaopei getting smaller and smaller
(now only size 2). Xiapi has grown to 17 (one bigger than Xuzhao).

It's getting more and more fun. However, I have to stop for now.
I am looking forward to continuing that game.

CellKu

 

[Rocoteh]

I hope its not 1 too many. At least this one is very fast loading and easy to test right?

Yes, its very fast and an interesting scenario.

Rocoteh

 

[Sarevok]

Yes, its very fast and an interesting scenario.

Rocoteh

Thank you very much

 

[Sarevok]

Sounds very interesting indeed! It looks like you are doing quite well and may manage to suceed where Lu Bu himself failed. Very nice test report!

 

[kane77077]

My experience with Yaun Shao (Monarch difficulty):

I started at war with Gongsun Zan so I sent most of my eastern forces into his territory. I took Bohai with just a few and the rest had been sent straight for Ji, which fell easily. From there it was just a few turns march to Liaodong, which also fell fairly easily.

Concurrent with my invasion of Gongsun Zan, I moved against Ma Teng, whose cities fell like dominoes up until I reached Xiliang. (All of my warriors were in transit from Gongsun Zan's lands and I didn't want to take on Ma Chao and Pang De without them.) I had to secure an ROP agreement with Cao Cao. By the time two of my warriors reached Xialiang, I had already built 2 heavy catapults in the recently acquired city of Longxi, so Xialiang fell too, but at the cost of the two warrior units I had sent to capture it.

From there, I moved against Li Jue's city Changan. I hald already taken Li Jue's city of Wuzhangguan from Ma Teng, and Wei forces had already taken Hongnong, so Li Jue was out.

Next went Zhang Lu, and I'm not sure who took out Zhang Xiu, but I assume it was Cao Cao.

Liu Bei and Lu Bu are still holding out, as are everyone else I haven't already mentioned. Cities have been razed all over the map - China is a wasteland in parts.

I have just finished researching Medium Units, and have upgraded all of my Light Cavalries and Light Swordsmen to Medium. I have a good size force of Marine Infantry (not essential until I have river access) and a number of Heavy Catapults. My next move will be an alliance with all remaining parties agaist Wei. I have at least one tech up on everyone but Wei, and Cao Cao has been at war with just about everyone at one time or another this game, so my neighbors should be lining up to help fight him. I can't build boats in Pingyuan and Yanzhou, only Bohai for some reason, so an amphibius assult of Wei isn't likely. It should go well antway, though...

Of coure I had a unit-triggered Golden Age at the start of the game, and I almost got the Art of War done before Wei, but he beat me by two turns(I only got so close because he kept starting an stopping it for some reason...) so I switched production to the intelligence agency. In my other cities, I built universities and theatres in my golden age, then Marine Infantry (ships in Bohai - the only place I could build them.)

Tech wise, I have been just a step behind Cao Cao and Liu Biao most od the way. Unfortunately, we have been researching the same techs until just recently - they both went for fire weapon and I went fo Bhuddism - so trading was nearly impossible until just now.

Other observations:

Lu Bu conquered a neighbor's city first, taking and razing Wuchao with an army (2 Med. Cavalry and ???) lead by Chen Gong within the first 2-3 turns of the game. Atta' boy, Lu Bu!

It was inconveinient not having a direct connection between the eastern and western sides of my territory without going through Wei lands. This was compounded by not being able to build boats for the river. One or the other would have been nice, but having neither was a bit frustrating - it made it harder to concentrate my forces.

I'll probably begin my invasion of Cao Cao's lands tonight, so I'll likely have more to report in the next day ot two.

Edit : Oh, yeah - with a few rounds of tech trading I was able to get on eaqual footing with Wei from the start, but I was still a turn or two behind nearly the whole way. I'm currently on turn 52 (I think sometime around 203AD). While playing as Wei, I had more money than I knew what to do with, but in this game money has been an issue - I had to upgrade my units over the course of a few turns - I couldn't afford to do it all at once for that many units- so that seems just about right.

 

[Sarevok]

My experience with Yaun Shao (Monarch difficulty):

I started at war with Gongsun Zan so I sent most of my eastern forces into his territory. I took Bohai with just a few and the rest had been sent straight for Ji, which fell easily. From there it was just a few turns march to Liaodong, which also fell fairly easily.

Concurrent with my invasion of Gongsun Zan, I moved against Ma Teng, whose cities fell like dominoes up until I reached Xiliang. (All of my warriors were in transit from Gongsun Zan's lands and I didn't want to take on Ma Chao and Pang De without them.) I had to secure an ROP agreement with Cao Cao. By the time two of my warriors reached Xialiang, I had already built 2 heavy catapults in the recently acquired city of Longxi, so Xialiang fell too, but at the cost of the two warrior units I had sent to capture it.

From there, I moved against Li Jue's city Changan. I hald already taken Li Jue's city of Wuzhangguan from Ma Teng, and Wei forces had already taken Hongnong, so Li Jue was out.

Next went Zhang Lu, and I'm not sure who took out Zhang Xiu, but I assume it was Cao Cao.

Liu Bei and Lu Bu are still holding out, as are everyone else I haven't already mentioned. Cities have been razed all over the map - China is a wasteland in parts.

I have just finished researching Medium Units, and have upgraded all of my Light Cavalries and Light Swordsmen to Medium. I have a good size force of Marine Infantry (not essential until I have river access) and a number of Heavy Catapults. My next move will be an alliance with all remaining parties agaist Wei. I have at least one tech up on everyone but Wei, and Cao Cao has been at war with just about everyone at one time or another this game, so my neighbors should be lining up to help fight him. I can't build boats in Pingyuan and Yanzhou, only Bohai for some reason, so an amphibius assult of Wei isn't likely. It should go well antway, though...

Of coure I had a unit-triggered Golden Age at the start of the game, and I almost got the Art of War done before Wei, but he beat me by two turns(I only got so close because he kept starting an stopping it for some reason...) so I switched production to the intelligence agency. In my other cities, I built universities and theatres in my golden age, then Marine Infantry (ships in Bohai - the only place I could build them.)

Tech wise, I have been just a step behind Cao Cao and Liu Biao most od the way. Unfortunately, we have been researching the same techs until just recently - they both went for fire weapon and I went fo Bhuddism - so trading was nearly impossible until just now.

Other observations:

Lu Bu conquered a neighbor's city first, taking and razing Wuchao with an army (2 Med. Cavalry and ???) lead by Chen Gong within the first 2-3 turns of the game. Atta' boy, Lu Bu!

It was inconveinient not having a direct connection between the eastern and western sides of my territory without going through Wei lands. This was compounded by not being able to build boats for the river. One or the other would have been nice, but having neither was a bit frustrating - it made it harder to concentrate my forces.

I'll probably begin my invasion of Cao Cao's lands tonight, so I'll likely have more to report in the next day ot two.

Edit : Oh, yeah - with a few rounds of tech trading I was able to get on eaqual footing with Wei from the start, but I was still a turn or two behind nearly the whole way. I'm currently on turn 52 (I think sometime around 203AD). While playing as Wei, I had more money than I knew what to do with, but in this game money has been an issue - I had to upgrade my units over the course of a few turns - I couldn't afford to do it all at once for that many units- so that seems just about right.

What do you think kane77077? Is Yuan Shao too weak or too strong? Is he where he should be in the books? Since you are one of the few others on this forum who have read the books, Iwould like to hear your opinion. Thank you You have also given a very interesting and detailed report on what you have done. Once again, Good job

- Sarevok

 

[Volum]

Will start the testing in a few minutes, il just take a random nation, if you have any nation that has not been tested yet let me know.

 

[citizen001]

er Sarevok, are you taking all our suggestions and turning them into changes or improvements?

 

[Sarevok]

er Sarevok, are you taking all our suggestions and turning them into changes or improvements?

of course! Thats what im doing for my free time right now!

 

[kane77077]

What do you think kane77077? Is Yuan Shao too weak or too strong? Is he where he should be in the books?

It depends on your goals with including Yuan Shao as one of the playable characters. If you want to make it kind of a "what if" situation for players wanting to use Yuan Shao to see what might have happened if he hadn't been so miserably defeated at the Battle of Guandu, he isn't too strong - you might even want to weaken him a bit, to make it more challenging. If, however, you expect more players to be using Cao Cao, then Yuan Shao should be made to have more units - not stronger units, nessecarily, but more of them, to reflect his greater numbers at the battle and to highlight how great a victory Cao Cao actually pulled off.

 

[citizen001]

It depends on your goals with including Yuan Shao as one of the playable characters. If you want to make it kind of a "what if" situation for players wanting to use Yuan Shao to see what might have happened if he hadn't been so miserably defeated at the Battle of Guandu.

if you wanted a 'what if', Dynasty Warriors 4 Yuan Shao musou mode would be a good start, just beat the Battle of Guandu, also with the other minor musou modes are a good look at what ifs, such as the yellow turban musou mode (if sarevok is going to make a yellow turban scenario) and the nanman (if sarevok is going to make nanman side playable in the TTK scenario.

also, remember in the book when one of Cao Cao's advisors gave Cao Cao like 5 (i think) good reasons to attack Yuan Shao? maybe you should include those points when allocating troops to Yuan Shao and Cao Cao. (i haven't read the book in a while and my memory needs refreshing so pls forgive any mistakes).

 

[citizen001]

oh yeah, crack troops could be another new unit addition as they were used a bit in the book....


what are crack troops exactly?

 

[kane77077]

what are crack troops exactly?

Crazed, drug-addicted men sent in first, screaming and hollering like the madmen they are. They are kept in line by the promise of more crack!


Sarevok, just a few thoughts :

1.)As part of your change to LuBu's stats, do you intend to increase his MP to reflect the legendary speed of his famous horse?

2.)What do you think of allowing the "warlord" units (Cao Cao, Gongsun Zan, Sun Jian, etc...) use of the "enslave" ability to reflect the often changing loyalties of warriors and officers during the period? I think enslaving to a warrior unit might be too powerful, but possibly enslaving to a heavy swordsman, or better yet a medium swordsmen would work well. You could even create an entirely new unit, available only as an "enslaved" unit, that would be similar to warriors but with reduced stats- much like in the Sengoku Conquest, the ronin is a Samuria with reduced stats.

 

[citizen001]

Crazed, drug-addicted men sent in first, screaming and hollering like the madmen they are. They are kept in line by the promise of more crack!

lol
..................
.................
.................

no, but seriously?

 

[citizen001]

What do you think of allowing the "warlord" units (Cao Cao, Gongsun Zan, Sun Jian, etc...) use of the "enslave" ability to reflect the often changing loyalties of warriors and officers during the period? I think enslaving to a warrior unit might be too powerful, but possibly enslaving to a heavy swordsman, or better yet a medium swordsmen would work well. You could even create an entirely new unit, available only as an "enslaved" unit, that would be similar to warriors but with reduced stats- much like in the Sengoku Conquest, the ronin is a Samuria with reduced stats.

in that case what about giving enslave to warriors as well to show that when they are captured they can be used again, like the example with when Sun Ce captured Taishi Ci.

 

[Al Zan]

this is the beta testing right?