Science Discussion 3SS-31

[Strider]

Okay, time for some actual planning. Okay, I'm looking to make short, mid, and long term science goals.

Our choice of tech options in the coming years is the following:

Immediate Research:
Fishing (9) --
Hunting (8) --
Mysticism (11) --
Horseback Riding (45) --
Writing (19) --
Masonry (18)
Metal Casting (100) --
Iron Working (44) --

Second Tier Research:
Sailing (With Fishing) (22)
Archery (With Hunting) (13)
Machinery (With Metal Casting) (156)
Polytheism (With Mysticism) (22)
Alphabet (With Writing) (67)
Mathematics (With Writing) (56)
Meditation (With Mysticism) (18)

Third Tier Research:
Compass (With Iron Working & Sailing) (89)
Priesthood (With Polytheism or Meditation) (13)
Currency (With Mathematics) (89)

Notes: Some of the turn to complete values may be off alittle. I just figured out our current research rate using current data from the ministry thread, then used that rate to determine the turns to complete each technology. I did not open Civ4 to check these, so if they're off one or two points.. don't complain. Also, if some of the numbers seem kind of high, remember that our tech rate will rise considerably as we build more cities.

Suggestion(s) from the Ministry of Science
Research Order:
Mysticism
Meditation
Priesthood
Masonry
Iron Working
Writing
Alphabet
*Archery
*Fishing
*Sailing
Mathematics
Monotheism
Theology

Note: Bolded the plan is to acquire these through trade, if we can't get them through trade, then they're just skipped. To summarize, even if we can't get Archery through trade.. were still researching Mathematics after Alphabet.

Head straight for Priesthood using the Meditation route (which is quicker than going through Monotheism). That get's us some temples to expand our borders, and sets us up religion wise. Afterwards, research Masonry for the Quarries (which should be needed by this point). Get Iron Working after Masonry, for we can reveal Iron and plop a city down somewhere near Iron.

Research Writing for the libraries, and to open up the path(s) to Alphabet and Mathematics, which we research next in that order. *Alphabet opens up tech trading, hopefully allowing us to grab Archery, Fishing, and Sailing through trade. Mathematics give us aqueducts, which should be needed around this point to manage health issues in our core cities.

After finishing Mathematics, we make a run for Theology, to hopefully found Christianty, and get a state religion set up. (Buddhism, Judiasm, etc. will be impossible to get to first. Islam, Christianty, and Confucianism are the only three we have a chance to get to.)

By this point, we should have further plans.

You can visit your friendly science department for additional information here

 

[Swissempire]

Once we get Bronze Working, i think we should go for writing then alphabet. This would allow us to gain technologies that are above them on the list and develop much quicker!

 

[Whomp]

Strider do you see construction after Monotheism? And would you consider turning off monotheism and changing to construction if Christianity is founded somewhere else?

Catapults and bridges will be critically important in our military future. Colosseums are a bonus.

 

[Strider]

Strider do you see construction after Monotheism? And would you consider turning off monotheism and changing to construction if Christianity is founded somewhere else?

Catapults and bridges will be critically important in our military future. Colosseums are a bonus.

It's all flexible, basically this is just to get the long term goals set up. I highly doubt the proposed plan would survive the ages. However, it gives us some planning points, and an expectation of the future. If Christianity is founded first, of course the plan is going to change. If we end up going to war early, the plan will change. If we have a few coastel cities (highly doubtful) that need harbors, etc. the plan will change.

Construction isn't in right now, mainly because I see no plans to war. There is, currently, no need to rush to get catapults or War Elephants. Also, Construction requires Masonry and Mathematics, not Monotheism.

 

[Whomp]

I realize it requires math and masonry but I wasn't clear. What I'm asking is if you'd switch out of monotheism if Christianity is founded during the mono research cycle.

 

[Strider]

I realize it requires math and masonry but I wasn't clear. What I'm asking is if you'd switch out of monotheism if Christianity is founded during the mono research cycle.

Like I said, it depends entirely on the situtation at that time. If people want to switch out of monotheism mid-way... would there even be a need to switch out mid-way?

It's impossible to tell at this point.

 

[Swissempire]

Monotheism is Judaism, do you mean theology in stead of Monotheism, Judaism instead of Christianity, or am i missing something here?

 

[Strider]

Monotheism is Judaism, do you mean theology in stead of Monotheism, Judaism instead of Christianity, or am i missing something here?

He means, that if were in the middle of researching Monotheism... and someone else researched Theology and founds Christianty, will we switch out half-way through Monotheism to get something else.

 

[Strider]

Just want to clear this up real fast.. the "Suggestions from the Science Ministry" section, is exactly what it said. It's a suggestion, be free to post your own goals/suggestions. It's mainly just included to start debate up.

 

[robboo]

Strider...How do you see this plan changing if we cannot find copper in our littel area. Would you go for archery or iron quicker or maintain our current path that you suggested.

I think we might need some plans if copper isnt found.

/paranoid I just saved a game where there wasnt any copper near me and the closest iron was next to another civs capital.(Saladin) I expanded in one direction..big mistake.

 

[DaveShack]

On late religions, what about Taoism?

I have had good results going for Code of Laws, to establish Confucionism. It seems to be more reliable going this way when others get the three early religions, plus we will eventually need courthouses to reduce city maintenance.

 

[Chillaxation]

Strider...How do you see this plan changing if we cannot find copper in our littel area. Would you go for archery or iron quicker or maintain our current path that you suggested.

I think we might need some plans if copper isnt found.

/paranoid I just saved a game where there wasnt any copper near me and the closest iron was next to another civs capital.(Saladin) I expanded in one direction..big mistake.

You have a real point here.

I feel like either we'll have axemen and can sit behind them while we steam ahead for a religion, or, not, and we'll be feeling too vulnerable to ignore horse archers, and maybe not found a religion this game.

Taoism pretty much always seems to hit after Confucianism, just because it's rare to see Drama developed before CoL, and since Polytheism is a precursor to both CoL and Drama, where CoL gets a religion founded. Really, if the Mongols aren't raring for blood, I'd support BW-Polytheism-Priesthood-Writing, while chop-rushing the Oracle. Having Priesthood and Pottery will help Writing go a bit faster, and we can time it right if we're building the Oracle too quickly. I'm not too proud to get Confucianism via a free tech.

That having been said, war is hell. We'll need a lot of recovery time to pick up after founding Confucianism. Having Genghis next door can be real hard or real easy - I hazard that converting him would have to be done after we fill up more of the territory back of the choke point, which may not be our first expansion direction.

There's a lot to think about. BW will give us a lot of information.

 

[Strider]

Strider...How do you see this plan changing if we cannot find copper in our littel area. Would you go for archery or iron quicker or maintain our current path that you suggested.

I think we might need some plans if copper isnt found.

/paranoid I just saved a game where there wasnt any copper near me and the closest iron was next to another civs capital.(Saladin) I expanded in one direction..big mistake.

It'll depend, at that point... I would have to see how long it'll take to go for Iron Working. If it's still to long, then archery would likely be the choice.

 

[BCLG100]

I feel we should maybe go for a later religion than Judaism, taoism or confucianism.

 

[Chillaxation]

I feel we should maybe go for a later religion than Judaism, taoism or confucianism.

Xtianity and Islam require heavy concentration in the religious techs, whereas the paths to Taoism and Confucianism make us go through Currency, Drama or Literature. Obviously there's a better chance to get a religion if we go that direction, but are we willing to sacrifice all other research for so long?

 

[DaveShack]

Still, it all comes down to a bigger picture view, on where we want to put our focus.

• Cultural and Religion
• Military and Production
• Financial and Science
• Balanced

Instead of discussing which specific tech path to take, I would suggest we decide which major strategy to follow. The specific tech path will then follow naturally.

My preference is to focus on military until we are secure, and then a balanced strategy which is updated as we learn more about the world.

 

[BCLG100]

I'd prefer a Military and production too, which is why i dont think we should really be trying to go for Monotheism.

I also dont think we should just go for Archery through trade, i like archers defending my city better than axes and therefore think we should research it and sooner rather than later.

 

[Admiral Kutzov]

here's a half baked plan.

get bronze so we can chop. research myst. DP needs to churn out another worker smewhere in there. chop out stonehenge for border expansions. While that's going on, reasearch writing and whatever we still need for priesthood. By the time stonehenge is done, we're ready for oracle. Chop some more and get the oracle. Oracle is used for code of laws. within a few of the oracle, the GP usually shows up and we get the Kong thingy.

Also need to push out a settler in there somewhere. Coordinate closely with the DP and don't get locked into a path more that 3 techs in the future.

you asked for discussion, you got discussion.