Science Discussion 4A: How to increase the research rate?

[Sigma]

Our research on Philosophy has started, but it will be a long time before it is completed, 54 turns from now in fact. So we must ask the question, what can we do to speed up our research rate? Several options have been proposed already:
- Whipping a library
- Adding some Scientist specialists
- Building more cottages (and lighthouses once we get Sailing, it's available for trade)

What do you think of these ideas? Do you have any others? We need to try and do something, because founding Taoism is important but we don't want it to hold us back too long.

Finally, as a last resort, another option would be to abandon Philosophy and start researching something else. But given the amount of time we've spent getting this far (40+ turns for drama, meditation, and partial philosophy), I don't think it's worth switching now. Maybe if there was an imminent threat, or a much better option, but any research strategy will take close to, or even more time than the rest of Philosophy, and won't have as many benefits. But as always, it's up to the citizens, so if you can come up with a plan that has more benefits than founding Taoism, and takes less time, put it up for discussion.

Here is the link to the Ministry of Science Thread. There is some discussion on this topic there as well, but please post all further discussion in this thread.

 

[Methos]

A couple options I have found, though I must admit they affect other offices who may prefer not too.

Boaring Wallow: Remove the citizen off the mined grass hill and have them work the lake. Also remove the citizen off the mined plains hill and have them work the improved pigs. This will keep the worker finishing in seven turns, but shaves Philosophy off by two turns.

Abydos: If you take the citizen off the forested grass and put him back on the cottaged grass tile along the river we can further shave off three more turns on Philosophy, bringing us down to 49 turns. This will slow the settler down from being completed in seven turns to now taking eight turns. I also suggest once the cottage finishes east of the city we move a citizen on to it so it can grow and help speed up our research.

Micalian’s Gate: Though as Minister of Culture I approve of building a library, I must admit it currently will provide absolutely no benefit. In order to make use of the library we need to be earning more beakers in this city. We may wish to chop the forested grass tile south of the city and build a cottage there.

City 4: We need to get workers down there to start clearing that jungle. I suggest first clearing both the gems and the tile located next to the river. Currently it isn’t located within our borders but should be by the time the jungle is cleared. Putting a cottage here [next to the river] would be in our best interest. After clearing and improving both tiles I’d suggest clearing any grassland jungle and cottaging it.

There’s just a few things that should help. I managed to shave off only five turns. Hopefully either myself or someone else can see ways to shave off a few more.

Remember that as our cottages grow our research time will drop considerably.

 

[Swissempire]

I would say build lots o cottages in City 4, and more up north, Maybe build get some scientists.

But no abondon ment

 

[robboo]

Methos has a start..but I think we need the whip if we are serious about this.

Whip a library in MG and Aybdos and then add a scientist to each. BW would have to assume primary production for all the units we need so it must work the most productive tiles. City 4 needs a lot of usless jungle chopped that wont give anything in return lots of turns wasted for little gain..( approx 10 turns per cottage)

Instead of whipping we could chop rush libraries.

 

[Methos]

Whip a library in MG...

I don't believe you've looked at the save so let me inform you that the library will finish in three turns. There's no need to whip it.

Removing the freshwater jungles near Abydos and building cottages there would also be in our best interest.

BW would have to assume primary production for all the units we need so it must work the most productive tiles.

I agree. Though BW can produced settlers quickly Abydos isn't very idea for settler production. Therefore as robboo said we should make BW our production city, at least for the time being.

Edit: Whoops, forgot I was in the Science thread. My apologies.

 

[Pajka]

I would say that BW can use even 2 scientists if working pigs. MG can build uints. We have to clear the jungle on gems next to City4 and build the mine (it will be in our borders soon) ... it will give us nice boost

 

[Chieftess]

You really should build more cottages....

Economy in Civ4 isn't exactly like Civ3. It's a bit harder to jumpstart.

 

[BCLG100]

We simply dont have enough cottages and need to build some more!

 

[GeorgeOP]

Where do we need the cottages?

 

[Whomp]

Where do we need the cottages?

There are two forest grasslands at Mic's Gate that should be chopped and cottages started. This city is productive hammerwise already and adding two cottages on those tiles will really help a lot.

At 70% science, even with a library, the city will produce 2 beakers. The only way to receive benefits from the library is to put a citzen on the coastal tile for 5 beakers. Probably not a worthwhile option so chopping soon should be a strong consideration.

 

[Tubby Rower]

the worker being trained in BW is currently in his Mundane Tasks 301 class. After he finishes with his degree in All Things Boring, I can lend him to Mic's Gate so that the cottages can be built. I would appreciate getting him back after 2 tiles of forest are fully converted to sub-standard housing.

 

[Rihiter]

First of all you made a terrible mistake starting philosophy. We should change our reserch to "Literature" immediatly, I would be finished in 15 turns, more or less in the time when we could attack the Mongols ( Old Sarai popup ). After finishing the "Literature" we must build "The Great Library" in our capitol with very intensive forest chooping and start researching philosophy once again. With money from pillaging mongol cities we might be able to increase the research rate eaven to 100%. Summing up, I think that doing it this way we could have Philosophy after something about 50 - 65t ( Literature 15t + T.G.Library 15-20t + 20-30t to finish philosophy ) or even faster if we increase research rate significance after pillaging.

So as you can see we can leave the research of Philosophy and have it finished after 44 turns, and after that be far far behind our rivals or we can change the research to Literature and after 44turns + 5 to 15turns have Literature, Philosophy and The Great Library which will be an incredible bost to our further research. And ofcourse will inspire our people which will occur in Grear Scientist -> Academy ( further science bost ).

 

[Tubby Rower]

we won't be "far far behind our rivals".

Currently we are about to trade for all of Mongol's techs minus HBR. Germany and Russia are further behind than they are.

 

[Rihiter]

Okey mayby currently after tech traiding we won't be, but after 44turns we might be "far far..." , and even if not, we won't be as forward as we can be with Great Library. I think tha G.L. is the highest prioryty wonder and it should be build as fast as it can be.

 

[Tubby Rower]

well I'm the governor of the capital and you'll have to convince me to build it

 

[Strider]

well I'm the governor of the capital and you'll have to convince me to build it

Or we could just post a poll under the proper polling standards and you won't have a choice . We've never managed to find a middle line in the powers of officials and the people.

Regardless, if a poll is posted and the results are in favor of it. You have no choice in the matter.

Note: I have no intention of posting such a poll. I don't really care what you do with your city.. and as far as I'm concerned you can do whatever you want with it (short of disbanding). Just pointing out the facts.

 

[Rihiter]

Is it everything what I have written not convincing? Well mayby I will reapet the most important facts and do some counting to show you what I mean.

Option I ( reserch Philosophy )
- Philosophy finished after 44turns

Option II ( change research to Literature )
- after 15turns we reserch Literature
- we build The Great Library (TGL) arter 15turns( with intensive chopping, we have to use those threes someday, and this is the right moment )
TGL total cost -> 525h = 9*45 + 15*8 ( 3 workers chop 9 forests which will take 15turns, during those 15turns the city will produce 120h )
- after building the TGL we will have +8 great person points per turn, so after 19 turns ( 150/8 = 18.75 ) we will get a great scientist which we can use to build academy in the capitol

So as you can see after 49 turns... our reserch will change significanse. Now in the capitol we have 20 Reserch Points per turn. After finishing TGL we will have 27RP ( 16 + 25%*16 + 6 + 25%*6 = 27.5 ). After building Academy we will have 38RP ( 16 + 75%*16 + 6 + 75%*6 = 16+12+6+4.5 = 38.5 ). So after 49 turns we almost double our research in the capital!!!

How fast will we have philosophy and your beloved religion?
After fihishing Literature we change research back to Philosophy. We allready have 486/1848RP and our empire produces 25RP every turn. During we are building TGL we will get 15*25 = 375RP. Then with TGL our empire will produce 32RP ( 27 in capitol and 5 in other cities, I don't count the effects of any libraries build or other changes in the rest of the cities ), so after 19 turns we will get 19*32=608RP. After that with the academy we will get least 379RP ( needed to finish Philosophy ) after 9 turns ( 9*43= 387RP ). 486+15*25+19*32+9*43=486+375+608+387=1856RP -> Philosophy 1848RP.

As you can see we can have Philosphy after 15+15+19+9=58turns, and this is the time we need without increasing our research rate after pillaging mongol cities ( which, I think, can decrease this time to something about 45 to 50 turns ).

Summing up, we might have Philosophy + Literature + great bost for futhure reserch ( TGL + academy, current 25RP/turn -> 43RP/turn ) after 49 turns!!!

 

[Whomp]

You're assuming we beat the other continent(s) to Glib.

 

[Rihiter]

Well if we don't, we are going to be in serious trouble. So we beter take the chance as fast as possible and try to beat them first. Remember that if we lose the benefit that comes from bulding The Great Library, we are not only losing it but also some other civilization will get it, some other civilization which we will have to face some day. And it is only up to us, who will be technology advanced on "That Day", We or Them. So I page You, as a simple citisen, let us build The Great Library, let us be stronger then ours rivals on "That Day".

 

[Whomp]

I would consider the option in Mic's Gate since there's plenty of chops in the city. You may want to see how the science minister responds. The biggest issue is the turnchat is steering us in the face.