Science Doctrine Alpha

[Civman2004]

We, the great peoples of Japanatica, have become the first Civilisation to enter what I will call the Industrial Age. My loyal scientists foresee great advances in productivity, population and military hardware.

We still have a few things left to mop up from our old age though. Do we get Democracy now, or later? What about Navigation? We have a few doctrinal issues to discuss:

We seem to be advocating a path of peace and prosperity. If we continue along that path, the following things from this age will be very helpful:

Factories for increased production
Hospitals for greater population
Railroads for increased production
Fast Workers to build the Railroads
Democratic Government to decrease corruption
Hoover Dam to increase production across our nation

Subordinate goals are:

Theory of Evolution, to give us the required techs faster
Forbidden Palace, to reduce corruption
Infantry, to maintain defense
Refining, to ensure we control oil, for maintenance of offense as deterrent


We need to perform a cost/benefit analysis on each of the above to determine what order we should obtain them in.

I thus recommend the following research path:
1. Industrialisation (only 1 tech needed, lets us start building factories)
2. Path to Sanitation (by the time the cities have finished factories, we can let them build hospitals)
3. Path to Replaceable Parts (then we can build some infantry for defense)
4. Path to Democracy while we build TOE, which we can use to get the very expensive techs of Atomic Theory and Electronics. This will give us very productive workers to finish off the Railroads and wipe out pollution.
5. Path to Electronics to build Hoover Dam
Then determine our next objectives

We will then be a production powerhouse.

An alternative is to ensure our military protection first, then consolidate our production. If that was to happen, I would recommend the following research path:
1. Replaceable Parts, to build Infantry
2. Sanitation, to get those cities above Size 12
Then determine our next objectives

Another alternative is to develop our offensive military hardware. If people desire to do that, I recommend the following research Path:
1. Replaceable Parts, to build infantry
2. Motorised Transportation, to develop tanks (a very long research path)
Then determine our next objectives

An additional alternative is to develop a very strong Navy. If people desire that path, I recommend the following:
1. Navigation (get or trade for)
2. Industrialisation (for factories in our coastal cities)
3. Refining (to ensure we have Oil)
4. Steel (to start building ships)

I intend to maintain the above doctrines together when polling, ie I will poll along the lines of "Which doctrine should we follow"
1. Growth & Production
2. Military Defense, then Growth & Production
3. Military Defense, then Offense
4. Naval Power

Other people may have alternate doctrines which they wish to propose, or may have refinements (or wholesale changes for that matter) to the way they believe my doctrines should operate.

 

[TimBentley]

If left alone, I believe the AI would research into the industrial ages, get nationalism, steam power, and industrialization, and then go on the democracy path. They should stop at the corporation and medicine. So I think we can at least trade for democracy. Or if we ignore industrialization, we could possibly buy it (I would not suggest this). The question of buying Navigation is obviously combined with the question of getting Magellan's Voyage.

 

[Nobody]

by the time we have researched replaceable parts someone else will of learnt democracy for us.

 

[Provolution]

I am very impressed, you actually reflect on science paths, like no other science minister has done before, and make us see this holistically, excellent work

 

[Strider]

I say we head straight for Scientific Method and build Theory of Evolution.

Steam Power (10 turns)
Electricty (9 turns)
Medicine (9 turns)
Scientific Method (10 turns) (Building ToE estimate: 30 turns)
Printing Press (4 Turns) (Before ToE)
Democracy (7 Turns) (Before ToE)
Atomic Theory (10 Turns) (Before ToE)
Nationalism (Some of it Before ToE and some afterwards)
Replaceable Parts (Get it by building ToE)
Electronics (Get it by building ToE)

This lands us 10 techs in around 70 turns, at our current research rate that is, and if my calculations are correct. Most likely, our research rate will increase, so I'm estimating 10 techs in about 50 turns, or an average of 5 turns per tech.

Remember that when we start research on a technology, we KEEP all of the research on it, even if we do switch. So if we build ToE's and need to switch to another tech we want to get with it, we will have no losses.

 

[Black_Hole]

do we choose what the TOE gives us? In conquests it usually gives us the cheapest techs, lots of times I get free artistry and navigation from it in conquests...

 

[Cyc]

I would vote for numbers 1. or 2. Growth and Production, with an emphasis on growth.

At this point we have 8 Size 12 cities. By the time we get Sanitation, that could double.

 

[Strider]

do we choose what the TOE gives us? In conquests it usually gives us the cheapest techs, lots of times I get free artistry and navigation from it in conquests...

You get whatever your currently researching and the technology you choose after that.

 

[blackheart]

Get factories and hospitals then go straight to TOE. We shouldn't repress our production or growth while we try to aim for a wonder.

 

[Provolution]

Just go for TOE, but stay away from Universal Suffrage, Japanatica is a traditional society where men is men and women is women.

 

[Civman2004]

@ Blackheart: I think that would be the same as the recommended doctrine, except we would get SM before RP - I've adjusted the doctrine accordingly as I agree with your thinking.

I will proceed with polling the following options:

Growth and Production Doctine
Industrialisation
Medicine
Sanitation
Electricity
Scientific Method
Replaceable Parts
and our two free techs from TOE would be
Atomic Theory
Electronics
then re-assess

Protection then Growth Doctrine
Electricity
Replaceable Parts
Industrialisation
Medicine
Sanitation
then re-assess

Naval Doctrine
Industrialisation
The Corporation
Refining
Steel
Combustion
Electricity
Replaceable Parts
Mass Production
then re-assess. At some point we would have traded for Navigation

Strider's TOE Doctrine
Steam Power
Electricty
Medicine
Scientific Method
Atomic Theory
Printing Press
Democracy
Nationalism
And our Free TOE techs:
Replaceable Parts
Electronics

Democracy Doctrine
Printing Press
Democracy
then re-assess


On further thought, I believe the Military Doctrine is simply an extension of the Naval one, so I won't include it at this point. Each doctrine will require some refinement, and will be subject to change along the way if the WOTP clearly indicates change is needed.

My plan is to poll these as options. If a run-off poll is required, we will try to fit it in before the turnchat.

 

[Strider]

Under the doctrine you want to poll as "mine"

make the tech order the following:

Steam Power
Electricty
Medicine
Scientific Method
Atomic Theory
Printing Press
Democracy
Nationalism
And our Free TOE techs:
Replaceable Parts
Electronics

 

[Black_Hole]

edit: NVM, read the disclaimer

 

[Provolution]

Blackhole

A doctrine is a roadmap, so that will dictate how they present polls in the future.
We have seen enough bickering in this game. People must learn to stick by their choices.
DZ already left thanks to that stupidity.

 

[Civman2004]

@Strider - fixed now (both in poll and in here)

 

[Civman2004]

We have the opportunity to trade for Printing Press. This leads me believe that we will soon be able to trade for Democracy. The question for the people is should we trade for it as soon as possible, or should we wait until a few Civilisations have it and the price is lower? This is largely a question for the trade ministry, but I do want to raise the timing of it in Scienc-ey type discussions, as the other alternative is to break out from our agreed research path to get Democracy, then head back along the research path again.

 

[Cyc]

I believe we need to improve our form of Government by applying new methods and reason to it. If we can learn a new way to govern Japanatica from one of our advanced neighbors, I think we should. Therefore, I hope that you as Science Minister, would encourage the Trade Dept. to arrange this as soon as possible.

 

[Ashburnham]

As it seems the WOTP is overwhelmingly in favor of following the "Growth and Production" doctrine, I doubt deviating from that path to pick up Democracy would be a popular move. However, I do think that the sooner we obtain this key tech, the better. My opinion is that we trade for it as soon as it becomes avaliabe, and revolt immediatly afterwards.

 

[blackheart]

As it seems the WOTP is overwhelmingly in favor of following the "Growth and Production" doctrine, I doubt deviating from that path to pick up Democracy would be a popular move. However, I do think that the sooner we obtain this key tech, the better. My opinion is that we trade for it as soon as it becomes avaliabe, and revolt immediatly afterwards.

Pointless in researching it right now because the other countries probably are.

 

[MOTH]

Pointless in researching it right now because the other countries probably are.

I agree with blackheart on this point. It is better to continue our research of Industrialization and other techs so that we have some bargaining chips to trade for Demo.