So lately I've been noting how much tourism depends on 2 critical late game techs (Telecommunications and Internet).
In fact this techs are so important that I wondered, could you actually think of a CV as more of an SV? Was rushing with the power of science towards these techs actually superior than going a more culture focused strategy? I wanted to give it a go.
I played Babylon, which is about as science focused as they come. The idea was to play a normal, non-CV focused game for most of the game. I was going to do the things I normally do until I got close to Radio, and then go "hey, a CV looks good, lets just go for that!"....then do a strong switch to a CV to see how viable it might be.
The Initial Plan
So the goal is to play normally "aka not thinking about a CV". Policy Wise I went Progress -> Statecraft -> Rationalism.
In general I worked all of my guilds for culture (which is a key source for progress that doesn't get as much base culture as tradition does), free GP went to GD or GS. My focus was science, not culture.
The crux of the strategy relies on 2 things:
1) Ability to faith buy Great Musicians (I do not think CV is viable without this, its literally like a fifth of your total key tourism in the late game, maybe more). Your goal is to buy 3 of them, so 10k faith will be needed.
2) Wonder policy negation. The trick to this strat is beelining to CN Tower but at the same time having enough policies + policy reductions to immediately pick up the tower. Otherwise, we lose the entire point of getting to the tech quickly.
So religion wise I took To the Glory of God and Prophecy. Glory of God is mandatory, no faith buy = no CV. Prophecy is theoretically not necessary if you can bag enough allies under Statecraft...but I find that in competitive games that is hard to do that late in the game. If I was to pick one weakness of the strat, its Prophecy...while its a nice belief it doesn't REALLY synergize like some other beliefs do with my science focused play, so it does feel like a conceit to make the CV work. Glory of god on the other hand is a rock solid belief in most situations, so I feel no guilt in picking it up.
The Enemy
So my enemy this game was going to be a tradition Morocco. And not just any Morocco, this is the 6/19 special (aka bugged) version that can build Kasbahs way more often than normal. This Morocco is death incarnate when it comes to CV....I would seriously have my work cut out for me.
When I met him in the Renaissance, he was two techs ahead of science crazy Babylon, and with more policies to boot. Oh boooooy.
Working the Plan
I expand and do a medieval war with my best friend Korea, putting the hurt on Alexander and making him my vassal. That would be the last time I would need to do any real fighting, I placed a massive army on my shores, and other than a couple of war declares here and there, no one caused me any trouble.
I ultimately expanded to 7 cities + 1 puppet from Greece. Smaller than a strong progress wide play but larger than most of my CVs. Ultimately the 7 cities fit the continent I was on, while there were other places to expand, none of them felt strong enough to warrant another city, so 8 cities it would be.
Morocco was snowballing in science, so I set my spies to the task of leveling out the playing field. My spy would then proceed to die 6 times in a row (not an exaggeration), until finally getting 1 tech that only shaved off 2 turns for me. At that point I honestly thought Morocco was just going to curb stomp me.
One thing I do at Archeology is making landmarks when appropriate instead of great works. for CV play I usually get all great works, as they scale like monsters in the late game, but I don't yet know I will be playing CV, and landmarks are generally better. The happiness would also be of help to me as you'll see below.
I also build a hotel in my capital, mainly thinking it would push my tourism to the point where it would start benefitting my Trade routes, at least a little. Otherwise, I ignore them until the "CV plan" activates. One other advantage I had with this map, was it was heavily forested. So zoos were actually useful for me beyond the tourism, but the base tourism from the land was significant enough to be a help.
WC wise I pushed for Scholars in Residents to give me a chance of catching up with Morocco in science, otherwise I play as many spheres as I can. This is my default play regardless of Victory Type, having some key permanent allies around your land is so nice even if I didn't need them for policy reductions.
As I approach computers I check on my tourism. Morocco is blitzing ahead in culture (because of course he is), but everyone else in the world is pretty low. So it looks like with a focused strat of mad GM play...maybe Morocco could be overtaken. Lets give it a shot!
Activating the Plan
I start building hotels in my satellite cities, and turn my spies into thieves to grab great works. I start trying to time out my next GM to occur right after Telecommunications.
Trade Route wise, everyone I can muster is going to Morocco. I am getting a large amount of yields, the only thing that is keeping me competitive with him, and it does generate a bit of tourism.
I will say, a really nice benefit of this strat...is that Statecraft's tourism bonus is actually useful. Artistry's Open border bonus is garbage...no self respecting AI is going to give you open borders in the late game when you have a CV threat. Fealty's bonus is also very tough, the AIs you normally care about are often strong and want their own religion, and will fight you aggressively to maintain. You need a good amount of faith for your late game GMs, so you can't get into missionary wars with the AI too much. But Statecraft's bonus is easy, just send 1 TR and your off to the races. Now sanctions are always an option of course, but at least you can defend against that with some sphere and GD play to secure votes.
Otherwise I just keep on trucking like normal.
The Race to the Tower
Its time for my ideology. Morocco is so ahead of me that he has already gotten freedom and secured the statue of liberty, its not looking good.
My plan was to go freedom, but without the policy from the wonder, I was not confident I could make it happen. Further, my science was still lagging, there was a strong worry that Morocco would snipe the tower anyway....which would be game over for my CV.
So I called an Audible, and went with Order for the stronger science. Further, I've been meaning to give these tourism policies a run for their money (see notes below).
GP wise I had been buying the cheap 1k faith options...I knew I could that and still have a good faith pool for my endgame GMs. However, I was not confident in my position, so I bought an extra GS. I knew it would delay my GM buying a bit, but at this point I felt I had to make a move somewhere. I also bought a 1k engineer to prepare for the tower.
With my bought GS combined with a natural one, I blitz to telecommunications. I immediately hit it with 2 GEs and finished it in 1 turn. SUCCESS!!!
Ok the first major hurdle cleared.
An Ordered CV
So in general, Order does not have a good rep on the forum when it comes to CV. I decided to really give it a look and see what I could do with it.
1) I started with Worker's Faculties (Tier 1). I had 0 coal in my entire area, so the 5 free factories + 4 coal from Slater mill gave me what I needed to field my factories. This honestly was critical to my success.
2) People's Army (Tier 1) was next. This gives me a bit more culture, and again more free buildings to free me up for other work. However, the +2 happy was actually quite important as you will see below.
3) Academy of Sciences (Tier 2). This was a compromise play. I had ideally wanted Cultural revolution at this point...however, I was still a good bit behind Morocco in techs. Further, I had not even gotten to the Research Lab tech when I picked this up, so this was a MASSIVE boost in science at the time. Ultimately I think the right decision to get to the CV techs that much quicker.
4) Peace Land Bread (Tier 1). I need more happiness for my ultimate plan.
5) Cultural Revolution (Tier 2). I was surprised at how good this actually was. The +5 tourism to great works is no joke, and many of the lesser civs went Order after me, so it helped me shore them up without any further work.
6) Spaceflight Pioneers (Tier 3). I had hoped to get Great Leap Forward with my second Tier 3 and then get to massive leap ahead in tech towards the late game. This ultimately was a mistake, by the time I got to GLF I had already blitzed the tech tree. I wish I had just taken GLF at the get go. Personally, I still find the GE rush benefit pretty garbage on SS parts.
7) Hero of the People (Tier 1). Normally this is the order policy I often take first or second. However, with a CV play, every late GM is critical. By delaying this policy for so long, I was able to snag another GM after telecom. It was not late enough for after Internet, so it wasn't super strong, but still gave me another 10k tourism bomb.
8) Dictatorship of the Proletariat: This is the big one, my massive tourism surge. I get it so late that I was fearful that it wouldn't help, and I was dead wrong. Combined with all of the other happiness policies I had taken, I had no trouble dominating every civ in happiness, and so I got a full 50% bonus to all civs.
Here's the thing, earlier tourism bonuses don't really matter, its the late crunch time bonuses that make all of the difference. I was getting a full surge right when I need it....when the GM bombs come. That 50% is a literal 50% increase to your GM bombs...its massive.
9) Iron Curtain: By this point in the game I had finished the tech tree, so GLF was useless. With iron curtain I could set up ITRs for the best building value possible.
The Final Push
Morocco snagged Apollo and Sydney first, so I went north on the tech tree and got hubble. It was neck in neck.
Once I hit Internet, I activated my super GM rush, which looks like the following:
1) 3 Faith bought GMs
2) 1 GM from International Games (always select this as the WC resolution right before internet comes up, so you can time it to get the GM a few turns after internet).
3) 1 GM from a musician guild.
Ultimately I really fumbled the timing of my guild GM...and he came out right before Telecom, which is almost useless, so I had to wait a long time for another one. Ideally with this rush, the last GM is your third faith bought GM, for me I had to wait another 6 turns after that for my musician guild GM...which was a big waste at such a critical time.
But with all of the pieces now in place, it came down to pressing end turn, and seeing how it played out.
The Final Result
I secured the Influential on Turn 358, and had a 9 turn CV build ahead of me, for an end game Turn of 367. However.... I managed a SV on Turn 360...7 turns earlier (I think Morocco had 2 parts left, so it was truly down to the wire).
I had generated 496k tourism against Morocco, which is actually much higher than some of my previous totals.. Part of that was the incredible amount of boredom that Morocco had (sometimes as high at 90%). This gave my bombs a tremendous end game kick, which I think was a big factor.
So the strat failed this time, but honestly considering the brokenness of current Morocco, I was impressed by how well it did....and how well Order panned out in this game. If I had managed my GM a bit better, who knows this could have been a CV a few turns before the SV.
Ultimately I think this strat is worth considering as a possible backup strategy if you think it will let you win quicker than SV, and I'm going to give it another try in the near future.
In fact this techs are so important that I wondered, could you actually think of a CV as more of an SV? Was rushing with the power of science towards these techs actually superior than going a more culture focused strategy? I wanted to give it a go.
I played Babylon, which is about as science focused as they come. The idea was to play a normal, non-CV focused game for most of the game. I was going to do the things I normally do until I got close to Radio, and then go "hey, a CV looks good, lets just go for that!"....then do a strong switch to a CV to see how viable it might be.
Spoiler :
The Initial Plan
So the goal is to play normally "aka not thinking about a CV". Policy Wise I went Progress -> Statecraft -> Rationalism.
In general I worked all of my guilds for culture (which is a key source for progress that doesn't get as much base culture as tradition does), free GP went to GD or GS. My focus was science, not culture.
The crux of the strategy relies on 2 things:
1) Ability to faith buy Great Musicians (I do not think CV is viable without this, its literally like a fifth of your total key tourism in the late game, maybe more). Your goal is to buy 3 of them, so 10k faith will be needed.
2) Wonder policy negation. The trick to this strat is beelining to CN Tower but at the same time having enough policies + policy reductions to immediately pick up the tower. Otherwise, we lose the entire point of getting to the tech quickly.
So religion wise I took To the Glory of God and Prophecy. Glory of God is mandatory, no faith buy = no CV. Prophecy is theoretically not necessary if you can bag enough allies under Statecraft...but I find that in competitive games that is hard to do that late in the game. If I was to pick one weakness of the strat, its Prophecy...while its a nice belief it doesn't REALLY synergize like some other beliefs do with my science focused play, so it does feel like a conceit to make the CV work. Glory of god on the other hand is a rock solid belief in most situations, so I feel no guilt in picking it up.
The Enemy
So my enemy this game was going to be a tradition Morocco. And not just any Morocco, this is the 6/19 special (aka bugged) version that can build Kasbahs way more often than normal. This Morocco is death incarnate when it comes to CV....I would seriously have my work cut out for me.
When I met him in the Renaissance, he was two techs ahead of science crazy Babylon, and with more policies to boot. Oh boooooy.
Working the Plan
I expand and do a medieval war with my best friend Korea, putting the hurt on Alexander and making him my vassal. That would be the last time I would need to do any real fighting, I placed a massive army on my shores, and other than a couple of war declares here and there, no one caused me any trouble.
I ultimately expanded to 7 cities + 1 puppet from Greece. Smaller than a strong progress wide play but larger than most of my CVs. Ultimately the 7 cities fit the continent I was on, while there were other places to expand, none of them felt strong enough to warrant another city, so 8 cities it would be.
Morocco was snowballing in science, so I set my spies to the task of leveling out the playing field. My spy would then proceed to die 6 times in a row (not an exaggeration), until finally getting 1 tech that only shaved off 2 turns for me. At that point I honestly thought Morocco was just going to curb stomp me.
One thing I do at Archeology is making landmarks when appropriate instead of great works. for CV play I usually get all great works, as they scale like monsters in the late game, but I don't yet know I will be playing CV, and landmarks are generally better. The happiness would also be of help to me as you'll see below.
I also build a hotel in my capital, mainly thinking it would push my tourism to the point where it would start benefitting my Trade routes, at least a little. Otherwise, I ignore them until the "CV plan" activates. One other advantage I had with this map, was it was heavily forested. So zoos were actually useful for me beyond the tourism, but the base tourism from the land was significant enough to be a help.
WC wise I pushed for Scholars in Residents to give me a chance of catching up with Morocco in science, otherwise I play as many spheres as I can. This is my default play regardless of Victory Type, having some key permanent allies around your land is so nice even if I didn't need them for policy reductions.
As I approach computers I check on my tourism. Morocco is blitzing ahead in culture (because of course he is), but everyone else in the world is pretty low. So it looks like with a focused strat of mad GM play...maybe Morocco could be overtaken. Lets give it a shot!
Activating the Plan
I start building hotels in my satellite cities, and turn my spies into thieves to grab great works. I start trying to time out my next GM to occur right after Telecommunications.
Trade Route wise, everyone I can muster is going to Morocco. I am getting a large amount of yields, the only thing that is keeping me competitive with him, and it does generate a bit of tourism.
I will say, a really nice benefit of this strat...is that Statecraft's tourism bonus is actually useful. Artistry's Open border bonus is garbage...no self respecting AI is going to give you open borders in the late game when you have a CV threat. Fealty's bonus is also very tough, the AIs you normally care about are often strong and want their own religion, and will fight you aggressively to maintain. You need a good amount of faith for your late game GMs, so you can't get into missionary wars with the AI too much. But Statecraft's bonus is easy, just send 1 TR and your off to the races. Now sanctions are always an option of course, but at least you can defend against that with some sphere and GD play to secure votes.
Otherwise I just keep on trucking like normal.
The Race to the Tower
Its time for my ideology. Morocco is so ahead of me that he has already gotten freedom and secured the statue of liberty, its not looking good.
My plan was to go freedom, but without the policy from the wonder, I was not confident I could make it happen. Further, my science was still lagging, there was a strong worry that Morocco would snipe the tower anyway....which would be game over for my CV.
So I called an Audible, and went with Order for the stronger science. Further, I've been meaning to give these tourism policies a run for their money (see notes below).
GP wise I had been buying the cheap 1k faith options...I knew I could that and still have a good faith pool for my endgame GMs. However, I was not confident in my position, so I bought an extra GS. I knew it would delay my GM buying a bit, but at this point I felt I had to make a move somewhere. I also bought a 1k engineer to prepare for the tower.
With my bought GS combined with a natural one, I blitz to telecommunications. I immediately hit it with 2 GEs and finished it in 1 turn. SUCCESS!!!
Ok the first major hurdle cleared.
An Ordered CV
So in general, Order does not have a good rep on the forum when it comes to CV. I decided to really give it a look and see what I could do with it.
Spoiler :
1) I started with Worker's Faculties (Tier 1). I had 0 coal in my entire area, so the 5 free factories + 4 coal from Slater mill gave me what I needed to field my factories. This honestly was critical to my success.
2) People's Army (Tier 1) was next. This gives me a bit more culture, and again more free buildings to free me up for other work. However, the +2 happy was actually quite important as you will see below.
3) Academy of Sciences (Tier 2). This was a compromise play. I had ideally wanted Cultural revolution at this point...however, I was still a good bit behind Morocco in techs. Further, I had not even gotten to the Research Lab tech when I picked this up, so this was a MASSIVE boost in science at the time. Ultimately I think the right decision to get to the CV techs that much quicker.
4) Peace Land Bread (Tier 1). I need more happiness for my ultimate plan.
5) Cultural Revolution (Tier 2). I was surprised at how good this actually was. The +5 tourism to great works is no joke, and many of the lesser civs went Order after me, so it helped me shore them up without any further work.
6) Spaceflight Pioneers (Tier 3). I had hoped to get Great Leap Forward with my second Tier 3 and then get to massive leap ahead in tech towards the late game. This ultimately was a mistake, by the time I got to GLF I had already blitzed the tech tree. I wish I had just taken GLF at the get go. Personally, I still find the GE rush benefit pretty garbage on SS parts.
7) Hero of the People (Tier 1). Normally this is the order policy I often take first or second. However, with a CV play, every late GM is critical. By delaying this policy for so long, I was able to snag another GM after telecom. It was not late enough for after Internet, so it wasn't super strong, but still gave me another 10k tourism bomb.
8) Dictatorship of the Proletariat: This is the big one, my massive tourism surge. I get it so late that I was fearful that it wouldn't help, and I was dead wrong. Combined with all of the other happiness policies I had taken, I had no trouble dominating every civ in happiness, and so I got a full 50% bonus to all civs.
Here's the thing, earlier tourism bonuses don't really matter, its the late crunch time bonuses that make all of the difference. I was getting a full surge right when I need it....when the GM bombs come. That 50% is a literal 50% increase to your GM bombs...its massive.
9) Iron Curtain: By this point in the game I had finished the tech tree, so GLF was useless. With iron curtain I could set up ITRs for the best building value possible.
The Final Push
Morocco snagged Apollo and Sydney first, so I went north on the tech tree and got hubble. It was neck in neck.
Once I hit Internet, I activated my super GM rush, which looks like the following:
1) 3 Faith bought GMs
2) 1 GM from International Games (always select this as the WC resolution right before internet comes up, so you can time it to get the GM a few turns after internet).
3) 1 GM from a musician guild.
Ultimately I really fumbled the timing of my guild GM...and he came out right before Telecom, which is almost useless, so I had to wait a long time for another one. Ideally with this rush, the last GM is your third faith bought GM, for me I had to wait another 6 turns after that for my musician guild GM...which was a big waste at such a critical time.
But with all of the pieces now in place, it came down to pressing end turn, and seeing how it played out.
The Final Result
I secured the Influential on Turn 358, and had a 9 turn CV build ahead of me, for an end game Turn of 367. However.... I managed a SV on Turn 360...7 turns earlier (I think Morocco had 2 parts left, so it was truly down to the wire).
I had generated 496k tourism against Morocco, which is actually much higher than some of my previous totals.. Part of that was the incredible amount of boredom that Morocco had (sometimes as high at 90%). This gave my bombs a tremendous end game kick, which I think was a big factor.
So the strat failed this time, but honestly considering the brokenness of current Morocco, I was impressed by how well it did....and how well Order panned out in this game. If I had managed my GM a bit better, who knows this could have been a CV a few turns before the SV.
Ultimately I think this strat is worth considering as a possible backup strategy if you think it will let you win quicker than SV, and I'm going to give it another try in the near future.
