Science slider not an exact science?

[Sweetchuck]

Check this out, I've been playing for a couple years now and I'm a tad anal about managing the science slider, this has never happened to me before but I sort of understand why it happened.

Turns to research a tech aren't exact and the number of turns given is an 'estimate' of sorts - but load this game and you'll see that I need 2 turns to research the tech at hand. At 2 turns, I usually work the slider since there's sometimes a gain involved if you can bump it down a notch - so try that, bump it down by 10% and see that you don't pick up any gain. No big deal, but put it back up 10% so that you get that tech in 2 turns.

Maybe?

 

[Spoonwood]

I haven't checked your save, but tech cost often changes with how many other tribes you know have the tech. The amount of beakers per turn also changes depending on growth and pollution and how much commerce you have overall (sometimes one more commerce in a city decreases the number of beakers, because those two go to taxes or something like that). The science slider does work as exact, but the conditions involved often change.

 

[Sweetchuck]

I haven't checked your save, but tech cost often changes with how many other tribes you know have the tech. The amount of beakers per turn also changes depending on growth and pollution and how much commerce you have overall (sometimes one more commerce in a city decreases the number of beakers, because those two go to taxes or something like that). The science slider does work as exact, but the conditions involved often change.

Right - I understand that, but as you are stating it, the changes occur when you run your turn (ie: turn and another civ beats you to the tech so the tech gets cheaper for you).

But that occurs after the turn. In my scenario (for those who haven't looked at it), in the same turn - if you bump the slider down 10%, the turns to research go from 2 to 3. Immediately after that (before turning) if you put the slider back 10% the turns to research doesn't go back to 2, it stays at 3.

 

[Optional]

I know what you mean, Sweetchuck, I once noticed this as well. It's annoying when it happens, and I have no idea what causes it. Maybe something to do with two conflicting systems of rounding up or down. Like, when you start hand-adjusting, maybe that's a different system from the calculation that happened in the previous interturn. But I'm just wildly speculating. I haven't looked at the save, as I've modded my game too much to still be able to run the regular game.

In a way I'm happy you experienced this as well, as when it first happened to me I wasn't sure whether I was hallucinating or not.

 

[Yoda Power]

Did you capture any cities that turn? Corruption might have gone up, resulting in less science.

If this is the case, then it would otherwise adjust between turns.

 

[Spoonwood]

Oh wait... I did actually have something like that happen once now that I think about it. I didn't read your comment all that well. Sorry... I should have given you more credit.

 

[Chamnix]

It is "exact" for what it shows, but F1 does not automatically refresh for certain events during your turn. When you began your turn, Computers would take 2 turns at 40%. During your turn, you founded New Chartres which increased the rank corruption of Cherbourg enough to cost you 2 beakers from that town. As soon as you founded New Chartres, Computers would take you 3 turns at 40%, but the screen didn't refresh until you moved the slider.

Can I have a cookie ?

 

[Optional]

Probably you folks have also noticed this: you've got some war weariness going on, and you sign peace with the civ that causes it. But when you now look at your cities, you still see no change. It's only when you start adjusting a slider you see your citizens becoming happier.
Maybe this is somehow related to the issue?
EDIT: I think Chamnix deserves his cookie.

 

[Aabraxan]

I guess Chamnix needs to make sure that he's got cookies enabled. I've also seen a couple of strange things when I move the sliders, like having happiness increase when I drop the science slider (without moving the happy slider).

 

[Optional]

I've also seen a couple of strange things when I move the sliders, like having happiness increase when I drop the science slider (without moving the happy slider).

That's happening often. The reverse as well: you increase science a bit and your people are getting less happy. I regularly get a town falling into disorder because of that. It's probably a rounding up or down thing, but I never studied it closely.

 

[Aabraxan]

I think you're right in it being a rounding issue. Assuming that your adjustments are small enough that the movement of one slider does not affect the percentage on the other: (1) adjusting the lux slider does not seem to affect science, but (2) adjusting the science slider can affect happiness. Based on those, I think that you pay for science first, and the rounding that happens with that can have an impact on how much is left over for luxury spending. I haven't seen anything to indicate that this is what's going on in Sweetchuck's game; it's just something that occurred to me while reading this thread.

 

[Sweetchuck]

Did you capture any cities that turn? Corruption might have gone up, resulting in less science.

If this is the case, then it would otherwise adjust between turns.

That's just it - absolutely nothing happens by way of capturing cities. Load it up and try it, do nothing but bump the slider down one notch and back up to it's original position.

It really put a dent in how I thought I understood the thing.

 

[ecuwins]

It's a rounding issue.

 

[capnvonbaron]

I notice the "unhappiness caused by science slider" thing once or twice in just about every game. I always wondered if it was because I was going into a negative gpt situation and the citizens were getting antsy that the economy was in trouble But yes, the "science charging before happy charging" makes a bit of sense. I'll try to remember to put the happy slider on 0% next game and see if any amount of science slider usage makes the people cranky.

Correct, though; the slider is not "exact science." Thats why sometimes, when I have two turns left on something, I'll go on a sad-face/entertainer/taxman-to-scientist campaign. Jimmy the slider until you find the 1 turn-to-research/2 turns-to-research border. Set it on the minimum 2 turns-to-research value, and start hunting down people in towns you can turn into scientists. I'll even turn nearly a whole town into scientists if no one will starve that turn and production won't suffer (as it seldom will in the boondocks or captured lands). Sometimes it doesn't take many at all. The result is usually a significant chunk of change, because the real cost of that tech is more like 40.5%, but the dern slider only lets you do 40% in 2 turns and profit, or 50% in 1 turn for a deficit. This way I get 1 turn AND profit

It takes some time and is not always successful, but if I'm bored and not in any wars, its something to pass the time.

 

[sk8boardbob2]

I had a similar non-update with luxes. I had one three luxes and my cities were balanced but two from a trade had just ran out. So I went out and secured two luxes so my cities wouldn't fall into disorder. When I looked at the city screen and domestic advisor, the happy/content/sad faces hadn't changed. It's only when I moved the entertainment slider up to 10% and back that it updated with happy faces all around.

 

[capnvonbaron]

@sk8boardbob: I don't think it normally shows you the happy people from luxs because it only counts them all up IBT right before your next production turn. However, jimmying the slider will cause it to auto-update everyone in that turn so you can so who is where on the happy-scale. Rest assured, no one would've started rioting on the next turn anyways... but from a management perspective, playing with the slider is the best way to update everyone and go adjust cities during your turn.