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Science Victory before the 20th Century

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by knighterrant81, Nov 12, 2011.

  1. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Chieftain

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    I've been trying to reach my latest goal: Science Victory before the 20th century (turn 320). I can pretty reliably launch my spaceship between 1905-1930, depending on how many RAs I can get and what my landscape looks like, but I haven't been able to break that 1900 barrier.

    Usually I beeline for Education and get it somewhere around turn 150 or so (not 100% sure on that but I usually have it before 1AD for sure). My scientific progress tends to stall here because Education comes at the point in the game where growth and building tends to be anemic where your economy/happiness is playing catchup to your technology, population growth and cities. This makes it hard to build Universities quickly.

    I get another bottleneck where my Science is way ahead of my culture, and I have to choose between filling Rationalism and filling another policy tree (usually Tradition). This is especially a problem if I don't meet any Cultural CS's near my Civ.

    The other problem I have is that I tend to get only a limited amount of cities because I have to tiptoe around the AIs who aren't too keen on me gobbling up large swaths of my home continent, especially if they happen to be ON said continent. This makes getting RAs a bit more difficult later on.

    I usually play Babylon (although I got close with the Americans the other day too, Minutemen are OP, just ask Ghengis Khan). My map settings are Standard speed, Continents, Standard size, and Prince Difficulty.
     
  2. GfxJG

    GfxJG Chieftain

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    Play on Epic speed. Problem solved. If you want to try that, taht is.
     
  3. vexing

    vexing knows

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    set your sights higher, before the 1400s is possible and not too hard with babylon.
    you'll need to use RAs extensively, and save all scientists except the first two for bulbing the last techs.

    a basic walkthrough that should get you started:

    for policies, take liberty, settler, worker, representation.
    settle on a mining luxury if possible with second city to avoid extended negative happiness, and second city starts building library immediately.

    tech pottery, writing, settle an academy by capital, then mining. capital builds scout, scout, monument, granary, great library (bulb philosophy), national college, then settlers depending on how many good spots are available. those cities build up infrastructure and population, in preparation for universities.

    selling open borders and meeting city states will provide enough gold to buy a worker, and you should do that as soon as you have 310 gold. you can steal another from a cs, and the one from liberty makes 3 which is possibly enough.

    the main thing is setting up RAs, you'll want to tech most of theology, most of civil service, and possibly most of compass then sign 4 or 5 RAs while still in the classical era.

    you have 30 turns after you sign the first one to finish off theology, civil service, then education, build universities and fill them, build hagia sophia for a great engineer to rush porcelain tower, bulb astronomy, get rationalism via oracle or good timing. when the RAs resolve they can get you all the way to chemistry. if you had iron, you could have built a catapult prior to this and double upgrade it to a cannon at this point, trivializing any conquering you wish to do.

    see the ra article in the war academy for pictures of how the tech tree needs to look for this, including how to set up your second and third waves to get the other techs necessary for a science victory.
     
  4. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Chieftain

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    Highlighted the important part.
     
  5. vexing

    vexing knows

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    you missed universities
     
  6. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Chieftain

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    This strategy seems to work well, however I was having a lot of trouble with gold and happiness and didn't have enough gold to sign up enough RAs to get the early win.

    Quit while I was ahead at 1600 or so when the AI started to catch up to me, I had been hemorrhaging gold (although happiness was under control) and my production and population growth was pretty bad too.

    I'm not sure if it was just a bad map (the only real $ resources were a bunch of whales that took a long time to hook up), or if I need to use more trading posts early on, but I definitely was not getting the gold needed for this to work.

    On the plus side I was running 100 beakers at 1 AD, which is much better than I am usually doing.
     
  7. vexing

    vexing knows

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    you pretty much need non fishing luxuries, and all the cities you found should have access to at least one luxury - preferably multi, in addition to riverside tiles. the 1 gold adds up, as does the bonus food from riverside farms.

    for the first round you need at least 800 gold saved up,
    after the first round you should be able to use a couple cannons and a knight or such to conquer most of a neighbor, and trade post all their land. this covers expenses for the third round, and generates great generals to use for golden ages.
     
  8. Johan de Witt

    Johan de Witt Chieftain

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    On Prince difficulty, you will always have a problem getting enough money. The AI will not have enough money to buy all your luxuries or sign enough Research Agreements with you.

    Playing on a higher difficulty alleviates this problem.
     
  9. fmlizard2

    fmlizard2 Chieftain

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    There is a lot of truth in these posts, but also, don't forget about the importance of population size in generating science. You will need a lot of population to build base science and run :c5science: specialists.

    A size 7 city without a library generates more science than a size 4 city with one.
     
  10. Crdnl Richelieu

    Crdnl Richelieu Chieftain

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    What level is that you based your guide on?

    You've only built 2 scouts. How would you defend yourself?
     
  11. vexing

    vexing knows

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    more important is the boost from specialists,
    a size two city with university and two scientists generates 12 beakers (as much as a size 12 city with nothing, or size 8 with library)
    add in secularism and this goes up to > 17.
     
  12. michaeljhuman

    michaeljhuman Chieftain

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    I managed 1904 on Quick with Babylon. I did not do it the way explained in this thread, though. And I am not sure what's considered good on Quick.
     
  13. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Chieftain

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    My record on standard is 1902 (I was so close!).

    I've tried a few more times to do this strat, and I think its is just a bit too convoluted and hinges too much on everything going just right, such as the number of AIs on your continent before you get Astronomy, number of luxuries in your city radius, or the proximity and aggressiveness of AI neighbors (I had Caesar on my back doorstep for one game, and while he couldn't crack my cities he wasn't really interested in signing RAs with me, or more to the point, staying at peace with me for 30 turns and letting the RA complete). In particular, I don't like working on RA's before Rationalism and PT are out; it seems like a waste of gold (the AI seems more likely at this point to break RA's by DOWing you) and that gold could be used to buy up a CS or two to shore up your economy. I'm still working on the timing for those RA's too which I'll admit I don't really have down yet.

    I'm also not sold on Babylon. Ingenuity's great, but it seems like Babylon isn't often in a great position to puppet a few cities without taking a severe economic detour towards a military, and they don't have a good UU to help them recoup their investment. Nothing says "reload" like Caesar one-shotting your Musketman with a Catapult and a city barrage when you sold your left arm to build that Musketman in the first place.

    Perhaps it is the Prince difficulty too; I was certainly able to completely pauper all the AIs selling my luxuries, and they had no gold to sign RA's :(
     
  14. vexing

    vexing knows

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    i have completed a turn 199 science victory on prince with egypt using this basic strat. it was on pangea so no need to worry about finding other continent civs.

    babylon with its early great scientist in addition to the scout -> bowmen upgrade possibility for early defense should make it significantly easier. a few bowmen should easily be able to defend against any early aggression.
     
  15. knighterrant81

    knighterrant81 Chieftain

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    The early aggression isn't the problem fending off AI's at Prince isn't really hard, its just that they are guarded or outright hostile and won't sign RA's, or if they will they are too poor because they bought all my luxuries.
     
  16. vexing

    vexing knows

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    hostile won't sign ras, guarded will.

    you can (and should) do things like give the AI 160 of your gold for 5 gold per turn so they have enough to sign, then sign on the same turn.
     
  17. Tr0n01d

    Tr0n01d Chieftain

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    I managed to make a 1902, but at settler difficulty :king:

    at the moment a RA ended I created ASAP another one with the same civ.

    the more civs, the better, but my computer can't manage the huge maps, ( well it can, but at some point it becomes unbearable.

    The porcelain tower is a must have in order for this to work .
     
  18. ense7en

    ense7en n7

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  19. vexing

    vexing knows

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  20. Jeff1787

    Jeff1787 Sarge

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    @ vexing:

    How do you settle an academy before mining?
     

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