Science Victory before the 20th Century

[Tabarnak]

*shrug* i think i hit my sub 200 my first attempt with egypt... that's excluding rerolling for a decent map / culture ruin.

with babylon and an okay start i'm confident i could do it 9 of 10 times on prince, pangea.

Egypt is pretty good for a science victory. The GL is easy to catch on prince and you can delay the Oracle for an instant freedom policy opening right after hitting the ren. era.

Pangea makes things much more easily. It's probably easier at prince and king level than any other levels to achieve this.

But there is also the player's skill level. Are you that good vexing? Well...yes.

 

[Teedman]

*shrug* i think i hit my sub 200 my first attempt with egypt... that's excluding rerolling for a decent map / culture ruin.

with babylon and an okay start i'm confident i could do it 9 of 10 times on prince, pangea.

How do you increase production, then? All my cities are production focused, I have stables/watermills/stone works/etc. I really don't ge tto focus too much on production though until the late game because I'm too busy trying to pack science buildings, gold producers, and units to defend myself from mulitiple attacks. Are you buying these buildings, or hard building them? Also, how much are you buying units/buildings?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm a details person. lol Maybe if I get a handle on some of the more finer points I can shave off a few turns....

 

[Mazer Rackham]

How do you increase production, then? All my cities are production focused, I have stables/watermills/stone works/etc. I really don't ge tto focus too much on production though until the late game because I'm too busy trying to pack science buildings, gold producers, and units to defend myself from mulitiple attacks. Are you buying these buildings, or hard building them? Also, how much are you buying units/buildings?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm a details person. lol Maybe if I get a handle on some of the more finer points I can shave off a few turns....

What level are you playing on? I've been trying to accomplish the sub-200 science win lately, too and I agree with Tabarnak that Prince or King seem to be the sweet spot. At these levels you can get a nice puppet empire fairly easily with a small army. You really just need a couple of cannons quickly after Chemistry and probably won't face anything stronger than a Pikeman on your conquest.

I find taking a few cities plus a capital can really help out in the gold department. If the capital is a production powerhouse, I will annex that at some point for parts production. War can also generate a GG or 2, which helps speed production in the end game.

When deciding what to build, universities always come first. Usually I will build markets after, but if I'm doing great in the financial department I will try to lay down the workshops and ironworks for the production. Factories are a must for parts, so if you don't have coal you need to get some. You always want aluminum too. Don't be afraid to conquer a CS (especially one others want you to knock off) to claim either of these.

At the end of the game, you want an infinite golden age. If you are able to fit in the Louvre and have a couple of GGs from throughout the game, you are in really good shape. If you are able to get CI and build the Taj Majal, you can really run a long GA at the end. When you've financed all your RAs, you can begin to buy production buildings if needed.

All this being said, I've only managed 202 (though at least 3 RAs were broken in this one... grrr). I've had other things go wrong too - no coal and aluminum, poorly planned scientific revolution, games where I can't scrape up the cash for RAs, etc. It's a tricky balance.

 

[Teedman]

Playing on Prince. I'll admit that I haven't taken any CS or AI's cities. Not because I haven't tried, though. lol Oh, well. Will give it another try. Sorry I'm not finding this all that easy to acomplish....

 

[vexing]

you can download the save games for my game if you want to see what i have built 1/3rd and 2/3rds the way through: http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ5/game_info.php?show=generallog&entryID=1862 i'm pretty sure mongolia is the only dlc enabled, so you should be able to view them.

i chose opponents with high expansion tendencies: rome, russia, mongolia, aztec, france, ottoman, america

you only need to settle 3-5 cities.
after first round of RAs (and chemistry) you do want to puppet most of your nearest neighbor, this gold boost is pretty necessary and the land increases your possibilities of getting coal / aluminum within borders significantly.

on lower difficulties (prince or king will generally work) a trick you want to do is use great library to bulb education. this lets you get up unis that much earlier, and unis/scientists are very important. you don't benefit from the free library (as you need to build one before) but it's worthwhile. if you're playing against high wonder lust people like egypt, this is dangerous.

in my attempt i started RAs around turn 80. this means they resolve starting 110, 140, 170. i pretty much followed the RA guide's pictures (i used this game to make the guide in fact).

hardly any gold goes into buying buildings / units. it almost all goes into RAs or savings for next round of RAs. if you can, build catapults and upgrade them. i generally will try to fit in big ben for the purposes of rush buying spaceship factories at the end.

 

[Tabarnak]

In theory, you can rush the Apollo tech, build Apollo and meanwhile prepare 6 cities ready to build every parts if you manage to pop every techs needed for spaceship parts right before finishing Apollo. Save for 3 best production cities for spaceship factories for the 3 biggest parts.

Some bad events/settings :

+Non-pangea maps
+medium or high sea level
+warmongers AI
+Few or no rivers around
+few luxuries to sell
+Great Library being built before turn 50(which can happen 1/3 of time)
+Oracle built before the ren. era
+Multiple DoWs
+No iron
etc.

 

[Teedman]

What level are you playing on? I've been trying to accomplish the sub-200 science win lately, too and I agree with Tabarnak that Prince or King seem to be the sweet spot. At these levels you can get a nice puppet empire fairly easily with a small army. You really just need a couple of cannons quickly after Chemistry and probably won't face anything stronger than a Pikeman on your conquest.

I find taking a few cities plus a capital can really help out in the gold department. If the capital is a production powerhouse, I will annex that at some point for parts production. War can also generate a GG or 2, which helps speed production in the end game.

When deciding what to build, universities always come first. Usually I will build markets after, but if I'm doing great in the financial department I will try to lay down the workshops and ironworks for the production. Factories are a must for parts, so if you don't have coal you need to get some. You always want aluminum too. Don't be afraid to conquer a CS (especially one others want you to knock off) to claim either of these.

At the end of the game, you want an infinite golden age. If you are able to fit in the Louvre and have a couple of GGs from throughout the game, you are in really good shape. If you are able to get CI and build the Taj Majal, you can really run a long GA at the end. When you've financed all your RAs, you can begin to buy production buildings if needed.

All this being said, I've only managed 202 (though at least 3 RAs were broken in this one... grrr). I've had other things go wrong too - no coal and aluminum, poorly planned scientific revolution, games where I can't scrape up the cash for RAs, etc. It's a tricky balance.

I agree with you...it is tricky. Thanks for the advice. Just don't know how or when I can build even a small army when almost 100% of my time is setting up for the RA's...and all that needs to be in place for them to work out right. Sure, I can build cannons and a few other army units, but that's time taken away from building markets, banks, workshops, and other money and production making buildings.

Guess I'm still learning how to make the most out of every turn. Still not there yet, but working on it. YOu've given me something to shoot for!

 

[Poopin Thelift]

Just done a turn 146 Spaceship (720 AD). Played not optimal, so I believe it's possible sub-140. Needs a somewhat special setup (Askia, settler, huge land map, raging barbs), at least it shows what crazy things you can do with Askia.

 

[rustedroot]

I have a few questions after I have attempted this a few times and got a space at about turn 250.
What policies should I be filling out?
I usually try to fill out liberty for the GE, and then go for the opener of Rationalism in time for my RA to resolve. Then I go for the Secularism and Free thought before doing Freedom and its right side.
What is the preferred order to these things?
I have heard of people holding off the Oracle to get the opener of Rationalism right as it is available, but the AI usually goes for it by that time for me.

Are temples worth getting? I have found that when going for the space ship, my culture is atrocious as I am building everything but science buildings, usually I don't even get temples as money is tight. Also, all of my money is going to RAs.

Lastly, when I get Universities in a city, should I always put two specialists, even if the city is really small, say size 4?

 

[Cytokinesis]

Since I got Babylon and Korea today (finally decided to buy DLC after buying the game on release day lol) I have been doing nothing but science victories. I play on emperor.

Every single game I start the exact same way: scout into worker, pottery into writing, then use babylon great scientist and make the academy tile. It will instantly double the science you already have. Next you research whatever tech you need to upgrade your tiles and start great library instantly after the worker. I put all my first policies in tradition for massive city growth. Then you want to time your research so that you get philosophy as soon as great library is finished. Then you instantly start the oracle. I get second settler from policy (I get settler policy after the first 2-3 in tradition then go back and finish tradition), found your second city and rush-buy your library in it if you have to so that you can get national college as soon as oracle is finished.

As soon as I have national college I assess situation if I need more military or whatever and get to education ASAP for universities and porcelain tower. Then you just pump out crazy amounts of great scientists and ONLY use them to make academy improvements. You can easily get your capital city to 600-700 science alone by the end of the game. You will have really low culture, but you will have enough to finish rationalism tree well before you start putting spaceship together. Oh and I only ever go to 4 cities(tops)+puppets.

Using this I have never gone past 1870 AD for tech victory/ it's pretty ridiculous because even if someone declares on you you can just buy a unit that is literally 2-3 techs ahead. It's like having mechanized infantry and they are still using rifleman. The last game I just did I ended at 1840 and my opponents were just hitting industrialized and one of them was almost at modern.

 

[vexing]

What policies should I be filling out?
I usually try to fill out liberty for the GE, and then go for the opener of Rationalism in time for my RA to resolve. Then I go for the Secularism and Free thought before doing Freedom and its right side.

those are the ones

What is the preferred order to these things?
I have heard of people holding off the Oracle to get the opener of Rationalism right as it is available, but the AI usually goes for it by that time for me.

that simplifies the timing for rationalism, but is only viable at lower levels. at emperor+ i wouldn't try it.

Are temples worth getting?

does the city need to pick up culture tiles? even then you're better off with monastery if available or stonehenge (though stonehenge is a risk). cultural city states are a better expenditure of resources... the 2 maintenance for 3 culture of a temple isn't a good deal.

Lastly, when I get Universities in a city, should I always put two specialists, even if the city is really small, say size 4?

it depends. generally your cities should have grown more before that point. scientists are great, but you also want your cities large enough to be effective on part production.

 

[Teedman]

After trying several times playing a standard game on Prince, I decided to try playing a quick game. I have played about 5 or 6 so far, all with Bab, and tech victory. The best I've done is a tech victory around turn 150. Don't think that's too bad. What I liked about playing on quick is that it gave me a better idea of how things progress and I was able to see the bigger picture a lot clearer since it was a fast paced game. Anyway, might not work for everyone but it helped me. I feel a lot more confident now playing on standard speed.

 

[Tabarnak]

After trying several times playing a standard game on Prince, I decided to try playing a quick game. I have played about 5 or 6 so far, all with Bab, and tech victory. The best I've done is a tech victory around turn 150. Don't think that's too bad. What I liked about playing on quick is that it gave me a better idea of how things progress and I was able to see the bigger picture a lot clearer since it was a fast paced game. Anyway, might not work for everyone but it helped me. I feel a lot more confident now playing on standard speed.

The biggest difference between quick and standard is RA length. It doesn't scale properly(30 vs 25, should be 30 vs 20). But culture and food are, i think, in favor of quick speed. Obviously, unit movements are more crucial at quick speed too. Sending a settler at 5-6 tiles from capital is like sending it at 8-9 turns at standard speed.

 

[rustedroot]

those are the ones


that simplifies the timing for rationalism, but is only viable at lower levels. at emperor+ i wouldn't try it.


does the city need to pick up culture tiles? even then you're better off with monastery if available or stonehenge (though stonehenge is a risk). cultural city states are a better expenditure of resources... the 2 maintenance for 3 culture of a temple isn't a good deal.



it depends. generally your cities should have grown more before that point. scientists are great, but you also want your cities large enough to be effective on part production.

Thanks for the help vexing. I am going to make another attempt this weekend.

 

[Teedman]

After the second wave of RA’s (after you get all the way to steam power) what buildings should I focus on building? I think I might be wasting time buidling things I really don't need. Thanks!

 

[Teedman]

Also, social policies....

I typically just get the opener for Freedom, and focus more on the rationalism branch, focusing on the left side first. Anything wrong with that? I read hear that I should be more concerned about the right side of the Freedom branch, but I don't see why that is more important.

 

[vexing]

just freedom opener is the important one. if you have policies to burn prior to scientific revolution, then go back to freedom.

as for buildings, the only late game buildings i tend to get are public school and factories.

 

[Scarpa]

Thanks to this thread and the RA article I achieved a turn 280 science victory with Arabia. It was meant to be a chivalry->tank rush but my start location was so isolated and defensible I went 3-city pure science. Popping all those RAs sure is fun!

I almost went for a late domination push given I had temple of Halicarnassus and 7 GSes, and even built the Pentagon while waiting for the last wave of RAs to resolve, but right after upgrading all my camel archers straight to tanks I saw Siam had a large air force staged near my borders. After that I just finished out the spaceship.

Was a fun game but probably will never do it again. I may do that tank rush eventually but would have to have some renaissance era wars to keep the AIs down, or just plan more carefully for a combined arms assault.

 

[Teedman]

Since a lot of folks seem to have questions about how to get a 200 turn tech victory, I am wondering if someone more skilled than myself could put together a more detailed guide on how to do it? Just a suggestion. I know I'd appreciate it!!

 

[vexing]

i've posted all the info necessary in this thread already. you can also view the save files at the 1/3rd, 2/3rd and end point of my turn 199 hof submission.