[GS] Science victory - GS - Elimination thread

[enKage]

20. John Curtin/Australia [18]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [3] 6-3 My fav civ among this 3, but remaining 2 have better cards to skyrocket in science early.
37. Seondeok/Korea [37] 36+1 You always have a hill in city, if not, why to settle if not Cree?
1) Guaranteed +3/+4 for rationalism boost
2) Faster growth to unlock even more rationalism benefits. Those farm triangles between 3 seowons is clear magic

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

20. John Curtin/Australia [19] (18+1) I honestly think they're a little better than Korea, but even 2nd place is deserving.
28. Pachacuti/Inca [3-0=ELIMINATED] Third place is fair.
37. Seondeok/Korea [37]

 

[lotrmith]

20. John Curtin/Australia [16] 19 - 3
37. Seondeok/Korea [38] 37 + 1

We all know where this is headed so let's wrap it up.

Sad China didn't get 3rd. Inca get good adjacency but not better than Aus, and that's about it. High pop only gets you so far. Meanwhile China's extra builder charge is so stupid strong. More chops, more eurekas (which are further boosted thanks to China ability)... no worrying about mining a resource, farming a resource, building a quarry, pasture, etc. Cuz the opportunity cost is vastly reduced thanks to the availability of the extra charge. No worry to improve 3 tiles then *still have the builder to go exploring if you want*. Extra charge remains useful the entire game, from rushing early wonders to the final chops or royal society laser projects to finish the SV. If everyone checked their stats they'd surely find most built unit by a huge margin is Workers.

Sad.

 

[Ondolindë]

20. John Curtin/Australia [17] (16+1) More fun to play and as powerful or even more.
37. Seondeok/Korea [35] (38-3) Not everything that shines is gold, but people will still buy it.

Moderator Action: Corrections made. leif

 

[Icicle]

20. John Curtin/Australia [14] (17-3) Not quite as good as Korea in this one particular area.
37. Seondeok/Korea [36] (35+1) Korea good at science.

 

[Leucarum]

20. John Curtin/Australia [11] (14-3) Australia is good
37. Seondeok/Korea [37] (36+1) But I prefer Korea's consistency. Hills are far more common than high appeal tiles most of the time*

*Your mileage may vary depending on map settings in particular I guess. If you play on archipelago mostly I can see why you'd reverse these votes.

 

[bengalryan9]

20. John Curtin/Australia [12] (11+1) Better than Korea at science and everything else that helps with science.
37. Seondeok/Korea [34] (37-3) Korea may lead to easier science, but not better science. You can create appeal when it's not high enough, but you can't create hills. She'll lag behind Curtin in culture, gold, faith, and production.

The theme of this thread since the start has basically been "SV isn't all about science, it's more about culture, faith, gold, and production"... right up until the end when we're just going to hand it to Korea who gets bonuses to science and nothing else. Good consistency there lol.

 

[kryat]

20. John Curtin/Australia [9] (12-3)
37. Seondeok/Korea [35] (34+1)

Hills are extremely reliable terrain. They’re everywhere. High appeal tiles are very reliable as well, but are less reliable than hills. You can’t guarantee there will be mountains or coasts or sheep or horses or cows where you spawn, but you can be fairly sure there’s a hill within city limits within 3 turns of movement. And there’s probably going to be more hills.

Korea is better than Australia for a science victory. The Seowan is much cheaper than a standard university and Korea has less variance in their campus quality (probably with a higher mean adjacency too). They’re so good at what they do, they don’t need to be good at the fundamentals. Korea has better than average cities because they get to key technologies much, much faster than anyone else.

True, they’ll probably lag a bit in culture. But they don’t have to. They’re incentivized to build mines, so they have decent production. They will probably hit apprenticeship and machinery early and get more production. That production can be leveraged into districts (like the TS), and more importantly, wonders, which makes TSs better. Which makes Korea good at culture. Korea often can start on many wonders before others can as well. Korea is also a truly awesome force with golden age heartbeat of steam. Not that Australia isn’t, it just isn’t as good on average.

 

[Victoria]

20. John Curtin/Australia [6] (9-3) not as good as Korea
37. Seondeok/Korea [36] (35+1) Just built for science. It is the fact that they can ramp up so early and also get cheap campuses later that just makes em pwn. Curtain will always lag because his campuses cost a lot. Rammping up science increases campus cost... but at half pace for Sendeok.

 

[fantsu]

20. John Curtin/Australia [7] (6+1)
I see both really good, but Curtin is harder to shut down in multiplayer late game if you are head-to-head.
37. Seondeok/Korea [33] (36-3)
Science machine, probably better against AI than Curtin when you really go for SV. Korea deserves its number 1 spot, sure.

 

[Tabarnak]

I see both really good, but Curtin is harder to shut down in multiplayer late game if you are head-to-head.

Not only head to head

20. John Curtin/Australia [8] (7+1) Better adjencies. More ways to gain indirect ressources that actually leverage science even more
37. Seondeok/Korea [30] (33-3) Often behind in science in multiplayer games compared to Australia excepted in the beginning for a short period of time

 

[Bliss]

20. John Curtin/Australia [5] (8-3) Start bias usually has no natural protection, so can't ignore military (land and sea). Needs good expansion. Needs appeal.
37. Seondeok/Korea [31] (35+1) Good start bias, usually safe (between mountains). Can get an edge very early with Seowon. Easy to ignore military and only build a few high-tech units. Doesnt need much expansion thanks to 3% from governors.

 

[Bangau]

20. John Curtin/Australia [2] (5-3) Great spot for a slightly OP civ.
37. Seondeok/Korea [32] (31+1) I think it has been mentioned once or twice, Korea rules at SV. ;-)

Next one gets to finish it! 't Was a fun run everyone.

 

[Ondolindë]

20. John Curtin/Australia [3] (2+1) I will end my participation defending the one that is the best from these two even though people are persuaded otherwise. Plus this one is more enjoyable.
37. Seondeok/Korea [29] (32+3) It's just a perception that it is the best in science.

 

[kaspergm]

Let me finish this:

20. John Curtin/Australia [0] (3-3) ELIMINATED] #2
37. Seondeok/Korea [30] (29+1) #1

I agree with others, Seondeok has more consistent bonuses, and half-price campus just rules the game.

 

[Bangau]

Final score:

1st: Seondeok/Korea
2nd: John Curtin/Australia
3th: Pachacuti/Inca

4th: Qin/China
5th: Gilgamesh/Sumeria
6th: Hojo Tokimune/Japan
7th: Wilhelmina/Netherlands
8th: Alexander/Macedon
9th: Frederick/Germany
10th: Saladin/Arabia
11th: Pericles/Greece
12th: Pedro/Brazil
13th: Trajan/Rome
14th: Robert the Bruce/Scotland
15th: Montezuma/Aztec
16th: Matthias Corvinus/Hungary
17th: Dido/Phoenicia
18th: Victoria/England
19th: Harald Hardrada/Norway
20th: Kupe/Maori
21th: Gorgo/Greece
22th: Gitarja/Indonesia
23th: Poundmaker/Cree
24th: Amanitore/Nubia
25th: Catherine/France
26th: Eleanor/England
27th: Kristina/Sweden
28th: Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo
29th: Philip/Spain
30th: Cleopatra/Egypt
31th: Cyrus/Persia
32th: Suleiman/Ottomans
33th: Peter/Russia
34th: Genghis Khan/Mongolia
35th: Teddy Roosevelt/America
36th: Jadwiga/Poland
37th: Lautaro/Mapuche
38th: Mansa Musa/Mali
39th: Chandragupta/India
40th: Eleanor/France
41th: Gandhi/India
42th: Tomyris/Scythia
43th: Tamar/Georgia
44th: Shaka/Zulu
45th: Wilfrid Laurier/Canada
46th: Jayavarman/Khmer

 

[lotrmith]

Australia is certainly stronger all around than Korea but Korea surely is stronger at Science specifically.

A good point made late is that the half price campus not only starts out strong but scales in value as the cost of districts increases throughout the game.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I think Spain should have been higher. I'm not saying top 10, but the mission is pretty good for science and they can have good internal trade routes between continents to get production to make space stuff.

The mission (and cultural heritage to buff it) come pretty late though, so I get their mediocre ranking

 

[Victoria]

Top 10 by a great peaceful Chinese player
Rogue-Star's rate(peaceful):
T0
1.Korea
2.China
T1:
3.Japan
4.Hungary
5.Greece(P)
6.Australia
7.Inca
T2:
8.Germany
9.Rome
10.Russia

 

[Archon_Wing]

So the voting isn't that off at worst. I guess it is hard to measure the value out of civs like Hungary and Greece.

Korea just has all the tools for success. Consistent science, culture, and a hills bias (so you can't even say they will lack hills/production). I think Australia is pretty close and cities rebel all the time because of loyalty.

That being said, we can always start another discussion elsewhere.