[GS] Science victory - GS - Elimination thread

[Beaver79]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24 = 23 + 1] - not only can they make great campuses with their bonus, but they can make great theater and holy sites as well, which can all be used for a SV. They can use their production bonus theoretically to speed up space projects.
21. Kristina/Sweeden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [20]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [14]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [21]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [20]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [24]
39. Shaka/Zulu [11]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [8 = 11 - 3] Tundra start bias with nothing to compensate for that in the early game when it matters. This is the only civ that will consistently have less food and less hammers than all other civs at the start. It's debatable if the no war thing is a good or a bad thing. I personally think it's a bad thing. The tundra/snow start makes Canada the worst civ for any victory conditions since ironically snowballs are hardest to make in the cold climate.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

Edit: Suleiman was dropped off some time ago. I added him back.

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweeden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [20]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [14]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [21]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21] (20+1) Science is a great option for Spain, despite them being so Religious/Domination focused. Mission spam around campuses provide a lot of faith, their trade routes can give extra production, and they can use the Jesuit Education to instantly build campus buildings with their faith.
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [24]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [8] (11-3) One trick pony civilization whose trick is definitely not science victory.
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [8]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Sostratus]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [20]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15] = 14+1 It's true that building a bunch of temples in the sand and peddling trinkets at Sugubas doesn't directly lead to Alpha Centauri. However, using a classical and or medieval golden age, Free Inquiry is an absolutely insane strategy if you maximize your suguba adjacency. (I wrote a guide on doing this.) Especially when combined with Reyna, you can get truly outrageous results quite early. Stuck in a dark age - use Monasticism.
Who said Science Victory wasn't for sale?
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [21]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [24]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [5] = 8-3 The best pathway here is to go take over another civ and use their campuses. But that ignores the glaring issue of needing to rush culture to unlock early corps (their true military advantage) and also science to have advanced enough units to take cities from the Koreans in the first place. Just saying "be better at everything" does not a space agency make.
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [8]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Xandinho]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [21]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [20]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22] = 21 + 1. He allows to have a campuses with a high bonus of adjacency without mountains close by, then build zoos in street carnivals and get science in lambermills from rainforests. And the Great Scientist refund bonus is also something to take into account.
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [24]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [5]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [5] = 8 - 3. I see nothing here that can help in the scientific race, warmongers at least allow to get some science in large empires of conquered cities.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Bangau]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17] (20-3) The district discount can help a little, but most likely only to build a campus with low adjacency. Stronger trade routes help somewhat as well, but overall I think Egypt isn't build for a good science game.
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22] (21+1) I like my science accompanied by some nice faith and culture. Hojo can great adjacency on any district and gets HS and TD at a good discount. Also, the building that you'll build anyway for a SV, the factory, comes with a nice little culture bonus. It think Hojo is a good competitor for the 'science top 5'
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [20]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [24]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [5]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [5]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

(Egypt was somehow fallen of the list, added her back in.)

 

[Loderingo]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [17] - 20-3 - A weak civ overall - no bonuses to science or production and the UU is only mediocre
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [25] - 24+1 - The strongest civ for pure science and a fairly straightforward game (a good civ to try when moving up a difficulty level)
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [5]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [5]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[kryat]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [14] (17-3) Bonuses are all lined up for culture/conquest dominance. Not conducive to building infrastructure necessary for science.
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [25]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [5]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [6] (5+1) There's worse on this list still. Canada can settle near mountains no one else would bother with, and can grow mountain cities in tundra to 10 pop easier than anyone. Four faces of peace also means you can forward settle while only annoying other civs without facing the consequences of retribution.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Leucarum]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15] (14+1) I'm gonna be a bit contrarian here. Mountain start bias plus an early source of culture from chemamull to speed your game up... That's not awful for science. For sure there's better but I'd vote others down first...
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [25]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [2] (5-3) You could argue that anyone with strong domination abilities is better at all the other victory types as well. But really you're just arguing that they're good at domination and if nobody else is strong enough to beat you, you'll win. So I'll downvote here. They don't have anything to specifically help a science win.
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [6]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Civ Chemist]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [25]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [3] (2+1): I don't think you should downvote strong domination civs, just because you don't like the fact that science can be won much faster by conquering your home continent and then turte to victory. They are better at science than at least half the civs still remaining just by the sheer amount of cities they can have by T100. How can you argue that Shaka is worse at science than pure faith civs like Gandhi or Tamar or even all the other avarage civs who will struggle a lot when boxed in by the AI and no real way to easily make some space for themselves. And the argument that strong domination civs are the best in every victory condition is also not true. Culture victories and especially religious victories can usually be won much faster with a peaceful strategy.
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [3] (3-3): Maybe be worst civ in the game, just by the fact that they have such a bad starting position, with little to make up for it. They don't get any extra production for settling in tundra, all they do is make mines and lumbermills as good as plains tiles. Then they are still low on food and will struggle a lot more than other civs to reach a decent amount of population, not only delaying your early expansion but also the construction of additional districts. Being safe from surprise attacks is also not really that big of a deal. When I get attacked early on the AI usually denounces me the turn after I meet them, so even Canada is not safe from them. All they have really going for them is a potential dance of the aurora, but even that is not guaranteed, as it usually goes quite early and they have no reliable faith to get than pantheon earlier.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Kwami]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [22]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26] (25+1): Gotta start with one of the best. Everything about Seondeok is Science.
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [3]40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
45. Wilfrid Laurier/Canada [0] (3-3): The tundra start bias alone is enough to sink Laurier. He doesn't really get any bonuses that help with Science, either. The Production bonuses are minor compared to what's lost by settling all over the tundra. Meh.
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[bengalryan9]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [12]
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [24]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [23] (22+1) Sneaky good with the Amazon ability.
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
39. Shaka/Zulu [eliminated] (3-3) How good is he (or any domination civ) going to be at a science victory if they roll an isolated start? He offers nothing in that situation, let alone if you just don't feel like going on the offensive.
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

When I get attacked early on the AI usually denounces me the turn after I meet them, so even Canada is not safe from them.

This would be true *if* the AI ever bothered to use cassus belli. They never will so Canada is literally immune to declarations of war from the AI. You as Canada are still free to go on the offensive, however, because you can make use of cassus belli if you decide you want to go that path (people always talk about Canada like they can't go to war at all... also not true).

EDIT: corrected totals

 

[Hogimus]

To @bengalryan9 's point, I started a SV game as Canada last night, and I was able to forward settle my closest neighbor, America. I was able to box him in with my forward settling because the AI does not even try to go to war with Canada. If I was anyone else, I would have been surprised war pretty quickly because I had almost no units and a lot of easy cities to take, but I wasn't because the AI does not go to war with Canada. I was then able to wait until America was in a bad spot after a failed war to do a horsemen rush. This was on Immortal, so it might be less likely to take them out on Deity, but the forward settling is still very possible. About the tundra bias, I spawned on the edge tundra on a floodplain and I moved one square to get a forest plains hill in my first six tiles. I had great production to start, and by the time I got lumber mills the tundra became just as good. I really encourage people to try Canada more, especially with the knowledge that you can get away with a lot of things others can't without going to war. They went earlier than I would like, but I get it, they certainly aren't especially good at SV...,but they're definitely not the worst Civ on this list.

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [9] (12-3) No SV bonuses to speak of at all.
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [20]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25] (24+1) Sweet, sweet adjacency bonuses.
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[BenitoChavez]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [6] = 9 - 3. Like Catherine but without better spies.
9. Eleanor/England [18]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [21] = 20 + 1. Not your traditional science powerhouse, but waging pillaging wars can be a rather nice science boost.
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [23]

 

[Nassim]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15] 18-3 I'm surprised English Eleanor is doing better than French Alienor, building wonders faster isn't the greatest thing for SV but that's still better than more artifacts.
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [21]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [14]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24] : 23+1 : those river adjacency bonus are a huge boost, and it also helps not get too far behind in culture as you rush for SV

 

[Disgustipated]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [20]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [21]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [21]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [24] = 23 + 1 +6 campus districts anyone?
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11] = 14 - 3 Absolutely terrible for science.
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]

As for English Eleanor I find her economy is just much more robust than French Eleanor. It gives you more options imho. There are some useful wonders in those eras, but I'd still rather have English Eleanor unless it's pangea.

 

[Kmart_Elvis]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [17] (20-3) A great versatile civ that has a focus on domination and culture, with some religious tricks, but nothing for science, unfortunately. Your bonuses help with conquering and warfare, and you're steered towards building theatre squares, commercial hubs, and holy sites for your paradeizas, leaving not much room for campuses and industrial zones.
7. Dido/Phoenicia [22] (21+1) I've gotten faster SV with them than I have with Scotland, Inca, Brazil, and others. The Free Inquiry Golden Age is practically broken if done right. Build campuses/IZ in your wide out spread empire and buy the buildings with gold. They don't have have any direct bonuses to science itself, just a well-designed civ that can leverage a SV quite handily.
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria[21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [21]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [22]
29. Pedro/Brazil [24]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [17]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]

 

[Leucarum]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [17]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [22]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [21]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23] (22+1) Mountains are good for an SV
29. Pedro/Brazil [24]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [14] (17-3) Religion has some uses for SV but not enough to make Russia a contender.
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [12]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]

 

[Victoria]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [17]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [22]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [8]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [22] (21+1) remote settle or local, when at T100 you can pillage a mine for 200 science with any unit you know the civ is broken and every pillage increases the science of the next! Play peacefully and let them declare on you, then pillage, why bother with taking cities, farm civs instead.
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [14]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [9] (12-3) faithful walls, they have faith running over, oozing out of them and faith is handy for an SV. But only in conjunction with being able to buy science buildings with faith and there is no guarantee they will get that. The likes of Peter, Gitarja and Qin just get there faster. City state conversion is something but that is it. An SV needs many things and culture is a key one other civs get in spades over Tamar. Faith alone is not enough. Every civ has an SV benefit, just not impressed with this one.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]

 

[bengalryan9]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [17]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [22]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [9] (8+1) Gandhi can take advantage of his Dharma ability to faith buy all kinds of scientific and cultural infrastructure with Jesuit Education even if he doesn't get there fast enough to claim it himself. I don't think he should be this low already.
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [22]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [11] (14-3) It's been posted time and time again in this thread that tundra and snow starts are just the worst, so I guess we'd better vote down the other civ that gets them (even if we like them), right? Russia gets the same land, only he gets even less food since he can't farm it. Besides that, his UD is built for religious and cultural victories... is he really going to stall those out just to chase a victory condition he has no advantage in (and one of his abilities only works when he's *behind* on science).
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [23]
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [9]
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]

 

[BenitoChavez]

1. Alexander/Macedon [21]
2. Amanitore/Nubia [20]
3. Catherine/France [18]
4. Chandragupta/India [17]
5. Cleopatra/Egypt [17]
6. Cyrus/Persia [17]
7. Dido/Phoenicia [22]
8. Eleanor/France [6]
9. Eleanor/England [15]
10. Frederick/Germany [21]
11. Gandhi/India [9]
12. Genghis Khan/Mongolia [15]
13. Gilgamesh/Sumeria [21]
14. Gitarja/Indonesia [21]
15. Gorgo/Greece [20]
16. Harald Hardrada/Norway [22]
17. Hojo Tokimune/Japan [22]
18. Jadwiga/Poland [17]
20. John Curtin/Australia [25]
21. Kristina/Sweden [18]
22. Kupe/Maori [18]
23. Lautaro/Mapuche [15]
24. Mansa Musa/Mali [15]
25. Matthias Corvinus/Hungary [20]
26. Montezuma/Aztec [20]
27. Mvemba a Nzinga/Kongo [17]
28. Pachacuti/Inca [23]
30. Pericles/Greece [22]
31. Peter/Russia [11]
32. Philip/Spain [21]
33. Poundmaker/Cree [21]
34. Qin Shi Huang/China [21]
35. Robert the Bruce/Scotland [24] = 23 + 1. I've always had the most success with science and Scotland. % based yields are too good.
36. Saladin/Arabia [21]
37. Seondeok/Korea [26]
38. Suleiman/Ottomans [20]
40. Tamar/Georgia [6] = 9 - 3. Another civ with little direct bonuses to science.
41. Teddy Roosevelt/America [20]
42. Tomyris/Scythia [11]
43. Trajan/Rome [20]
44. Victoria/England [20]
46. Wilhelmina/Netherlands [24]