Science Victory in 128 Turns (VIDEO) - Strategy and Discussion UPDATED 2

[civtrader6]

Hi all, due to many requests I am posting a video guide to fast science victory using GoTM 28 map (Aztec, Emperor, Standard Speed, Fractal).

In the video, I am discussing the rationale behind most decisions and trying to demonstrate how to build your empire.
The phases generally comply with the advice from the Science Victory in 140 turns thread (from early opening, expansion, conquest etc).
I have deliberately not used anything that could be called an 'exploit' in this game (e.g. no monarchy wall overflows, no gold from farms when placing neighborhoods etc) - even though I disagree that these are actually exploits. If I did, and if I made less mistakes, the victory could have come to even T120ish.

Now, Aztec unique ability (capturing builders and using them to complete districts) clearly makes them too special (although - at one point it gets very tedious), so I don't think this victory time can be achieved with any other civ. Nevertheless, key principles remain the same and I discuss that in the video at length.

Keep in mind that I am neither a streamer nor a youtuber, but am making this because of a number of requests and the sad fact that youtube has a shortage of good/fast players (no offense - but please message me if you know any) and quality guides/strategy discussions. I also wanted to take this chance to record the game before R&F brings a significant change to game mechanics.

Feel free to ask any questions you want and discuss strategy, decisions and mistakes I made.
Cheers, civtrader6.

 

[Cobretti]

Made an account just to thank you for doing this. Do you prefer the questions to be made here or in the comments section of the video?

 

[Lily_Lancer]

For T128 I think Australia may also be possible.

For Aztec or maybe Australia. the main advantage is that you don't need Great Scientists at all and can do 5 spaceports and just chop the projects(for other Civ this is impossible since you need 5 20-tree city , but Aztec and Australia reduce that to a reasonable amount of 10. Finding a city with 10 trees is easy.

If only focus on science, T120ish is a reasonable number of turns. But in normal games you need more gold/prod/faith than science to recruit those GSs, which reduces your turn.

I also see some imperfect details in your video, such as placing campus early but on a chopable feature. Since for Aztec it is special that early placement is not that important, still useful but not worth a chop.

I appreciate your Colusseum planning, that is what I always forget, and that is very useful.

 

[civtrader6]

Made an account just to thank you for doing this. Do you prefer the questions to be made here or in the comments section of the video?

Thanks Cobretti, best to discuss strategy and decisions here.

@Lily_Lancer,
Never really tried Australia. Why exactly would it need less turns?

Gold was actually the bottleneck in this game. It will be more obvious in the second video. Extra science would have been easy to pump. I also made a few serious mistakes that slowed things down a few turns.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Thanks Cobretti, best to discuss strategy and decisions here.

@Lily_Lancer,
Never really tried Australia. Why exactly would it need less turns?

Gold was actually the bottleneck in this game. It will be more obvious in the second video. Extra science would have been easy to pump. I also made a few serious mistakes that slowed things down a few turns.

For Aztec and Australia you don't need gold/GS point at all, just find 5 places with ~10 chops, and build(chop) a spaceport and chop a space project there. Aztec in fact needs 7, while Australia needs 8.(with +40% von neumann+mausoleum, if not then the number becomes 9, which is still reasonable) My experience is that places with 10 chops(tree+1.25*stone+1.25*deer+0.5*rainforest) are not very difficult to find.

Not sure if this strategy applies to other Civs. With city plan goddess and some early space project bonuses(+40% for von neumann+mausoleum), you need ~2,800 prod to finish a spaceport+project, which is 14 chops. But places with 14 chops are difficult to find, not sure if there exist 5 in the map.

 

[civtrader6]

For Aztec and Australia you don't need gold/GS point at all, just find 5 places with ~10 chops, and build(chop) a spaceport and chop a space project there. Aztec in fact needs 7, while Australia needs 8.(with +40% von neumann+mausoleum, if not then the number becomes 9, which is still reasonable) My experience is that places with 10 chops(tree+1.25*stone+1.25*deer+0.5*rainforest) are not very difficult to find.

Not sure if this strategy applies to other Civs. With city plan goddess and some early space project bonuses(+40% for von neumann+mausoleum), you need ~2,800 prod to finish a spaceport+project, which is 14 chops. But places with 14 chops are difficult to find, not sure if there exist 5 in the map.

I'm guessing you're referring to Australia's 100% production boost if you liberate a city? So liberating a CS at around T100 or so?
But what is the strategy for getting the Great Engineers in that case? I've only gotten the space-race engineers in my games with Germany. Would that include spamming just spamming IZs? Or using Goddess of the Harvest to faith purchase engineers?

 

[Victoria]

Only part I posted so far...
A great video and even though you have lot of builders its is as you said a lets play that is far superior to most on you tube.
There is so much good play in the way you play that is not discussed but should hopefully be noticed by watchers.
It was interesting how you rushed to Feudalism and then delayed your builds... I have found getting closer to Mercenaries before finishing it gets you those additional envoys earlier which can be handy. It just feels wrong me suggesting this to a better player though.

 

[i_imperator]

Thanks a million! I have to go to work shortly but will watch this when I get back!

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I'm guessing you're referring to Australia's 100% production boost if you liberate a city? So liberating a CS at around T100 or so?
But what is the strategy for getting the Great Engineers in that case? I've only gotten the space-race engineers in my games with Germany. Would that include spamming just spamming IZs? Or using Goddess of the Harvest to faith purchase engineers?

In fact for Australia, you can capture a CS, give it to another Civ, and liberate it. Although this method disobeys Gotm rules... Aztec can do that for sure

That engineer is optional, without him you need 9 trees for each spaceport city(7/8 with him), which is also quite reasonable. It's also a modern engineer so that you can purchase with neighborhood gold only, or maybe some uswithout focusing on money.

For neighborhood gold, I'm sure it's not an exploit. The card is introduced for that use I think. Selling future apartments is also reasonable, and that's even a way some government get money in the real world.

 

[HyJinkx]

First off, I want to say I’m really enjoying your playthrough so far. It’s always interesting to read the written advice given around here but not always as easy to implement it into gameplay. Being able to watch it as you explain gives for a much understanding of how you accomplish these goals while dealing with other unforeseen issues. It’s easy for people to say do this by turn 70 or this by turn 80 but the game can still manage to throw a monkey wrench in here or there. Just being able to see when you switch your builds and which you do not switch because of importance or timing helps immensely. It also nice to be see that even though you’ve had minor mistakes like not switching a tech exactly at the boost or forgetting to switch a build it can still be overcome with minimal sacrifice to your goal. I’m sure that when you’re pushing for a victory in such a short game that these thing matter greatly but we are all human and are prone to mistakes here or there. Simply getting to see your choice of certain city sites over others and you’re build orders makes for a much better understanding of how your style of play really leads to your victories. The other huge advantage here is your explination of what you’re doing and why. I look forward to the seeing the rest of this game and hopefully a few more if you’re up to it. I can understand that Monty allows you to push the turns down due to his almost overpowered ablilties but I would really enjoy seeing how you accomplish this with other civs also even if the turn time ends up being higher.

 

[Falabello]

Fantastic! I was waiting for a video exactly like this.
I hope you feel encouraged to record several others after this one.
As one said before, Aztec instigates you for a quite peculiar game, with this amount of builders ...
So, I would also like to see your gameplay with other Civs (specially at Deity).
Congratulations on your initiative !

 

[aspa]

great video to learn! please share the second part ASAP

 

[PYITE]

Excellent work!!!

No need to apologize about not being experienced at streaming, you were really great; easy to understand, tons of great explanations for your decisions and your obvious enthusiasm for the game made it an enjoyable listen.

I got about a thousand really significant tips from the video, thank you. I have one small tiny helper for you in return, though you probably already know it and weren’t using it in fear of being accused of using an exploit. Use the settler lens when exploring to help find other cities.

 

[civtrader6]

Hi everyone,
thank you for you kind words and encouragement. I am really happy that your game can benefit.
Just wanted to update in relation to uploading the videos - I am still in China for business (and youtube is blocked) so I'm trying my best to push it through VPN - but it is painfully, painfully slow and unreliable.
Hope the rest will follow soon.
Cheers.

 

[Hactar]

Definitely the most useful playthrough I’ve watched, and I’ve watched a lot. Huge thanks.

I played a game today and got my best time yet, turn 212, even with lots of mistakes. (You gotta start somewhere, right? LOL) Really looking forward to seeing how you manage gold in the end game.

 

[The Pilgrim]

@civtrader6

Thanks a lot! You just made YouTube a better place.

I have few questions:
1. You didn't run God King, but went straight for Urban Planning. Is that something you always do? I usually try to get a pantheon and if I can't get faith by other means (tiles, CS, relics, huts). I run God King until I get it and only then switch to Urban Planning.
2. On t57 you placed a CD over marsh in a newly founded city. Wouldn't it make sense to harvest the food first with all the builders you had?
3. You don't improve many tiles, if at all. What's your rule of thumb aside eurekas? I always have a strong urge to build all improvements that boost production.

Thanks again. Looking forward to the next part.

P.S. I had assumed combining cqui with GOTM save files was impossible, and that's why (one of the reasons anyway) I haven't played the map yet. Apparently it is possible and now have one excuse less.

 

[Victoria]

I’m gonna be rude and jump in, civtrader can always correct me afterward.

You didn't run God King

God king is meh. I may run it for 5 turns if I have a couple of scouts as they are likely to get +20 faith... you can always pillage a holy site for 25 faith... that early production is such a huge bonus and there are lots of ways of getting faith.

Wouldn't it make sense to harvest the food first with all the builders you had?

apart from a few core cities you do not want your cities to grow. Chopping a tree is better than chopping a swamp

You don't improve many tiles, if at all.

Improving a tile does not give a lot and costs a builder charge. The problem is you can easily run out of workers at the end and they get expensive.

 

[civtrader6]

Overnight file upload failed again. I'll try again and again.
Maybe Firaxis could add 'The Great Firewall' as a wonder in information era (increases Loyalty haha).

Definitely the most useful playthrough I’ve watched, and I’ve watched a lot. Huge thanks.

I played a game today and got my best time yet, turn 212, even with lots of mistakes. (You gotta start somewhere, right? LOL) Really looking forward to seeing how you manage gold in the end game.

Thanks Hactar, and yes its a good start. I made the biggest progress in my games by re-playing a familiar map 3 times - which is like a practice in a controlled environment and got my win times from T200+ to T160. Once you recognise (some) mistakes its easy to correct afterwards.

@civtrader6

Thanks a lot! You just made YouTube a better place.

I have few questions:
1. You didn't run God King, but went straight for Urban Planning. Is that something you always do? I usually try to get a pantheon and if I can't get faith by other means (tiles, CS, relics, huts). I run God King until I get it and only then switch to Urban Planning.
2. On t57 you placed a CD over marsh in a newly founded city. Wouldn't it make sense to harvest the food first with all the builders you had?
3. You don't improve many tiles, if at all. What's your rule of thumb aside eurekas? I always have a strong urge to build all improvements that boost production.

Thanks again. Looking forward to the next part.

P.S. I had assumed combining cqui with GOTM save files was impossible, and that's why (one of the reasons anyway) I haven't played the map yet. Apparently it is possible and now have one excuse less.

Solid answers from @Victoria.
In addition - I would love to chop that marsh but - waiting for a builder to come etc is slowing down my progression while the district costs escalate ridiculously.
In a non-aztec game I may improve some tiles. Sometimes its good to put a mine in a city where you can't chop a Uni or Library and have to wait etc. Farms on the other hand are pretty much never worth it. If your city desperately needs you to make a farm - then most likely (there are exceptions around some wonders) maybe the city should not be there in the first place.

As for CQUI, it started working with any save a couple of months ago -> by itself. I was pleasantly surprised to learn that the new Community Patch team has adapted the mod not to affect savegames.

 

[hongyu20]

Hi everyone,
thank you for you kind words and encouragement. I am really happy that your game can benefit.
Just wanted to update in relation to uploading the videos - I am still in China for business (and youtube is blocked) so I'm trying my best to push it through VPN - but it is painfully, painfully slow and unreliable.
Hope the rest will follow soon.
Cheers.

Maybe you should try another VPN service, since I am in China and have no speed problems at all, not trying to hurry you up, just saying. Also, thanks for the video, it really helped.

 

[Staal]

You say you're not a Youtuber but I thought the video was very good. Your commentary is clear and informative. A lot of Youtubers just jabber pointlessly. I'd love to see you make more videos in the future. I can beat Deity and sometimes it becomes more fun to watch a good player play than play myself. A bit weird I know.