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Science Victory in 128 Turns (VIDEO) - Strategy and Discussion UPDATED 2

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by civtrader6, Jan 6, 2018.

  1. mrwho

    mrwho Chieftain

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    Great video, looking forward to part 2. I've learned a lot already from watching it.
     
  2. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi all,
    Part Two has been posted.
    Thanks for the encouragement. Again, it pleases me greatly that many of you are finding these videos useful.
    To that end, and since Aztec game becomes quite tedious due to the builder issues, I've got something more fun to ease the Rise and Fall wait.
    Coming soon.
    Cheers.
     
    Draco84, Arent11, jkg777 and 7 others like this.
  3. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    Great! I’m going to watch it soon. Thanks for this and I’m looking forward to future shares.
     
  4. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    I don't know what makes you believe so. It feels like you have some prejudice against Chinese players. People win respect by respecting others, isn't it? You can see there are a bunch of Chinese folks on this forum, @xxhe, @Sagax, @hongyu20, and @FurionHuang, etc, many of them are also active on Chinese forums, so had anyone ever stolen the videos, they should notice it and point out. You might still have the impression on Chinese people about hacking software and ignoring copyright? It was a shame that we did, but with the authorities enforcing copyright protection and more and more people are aware and respecting, things getting changed. The discussion threads posted here are often cited on Chinese forums since the game release, acknowledging the original author and source. People like @Victoria is pretty well known to us.

    I noticed that you and lly (you call him 11248, who’s full ID is 11248lly on Chinese forum) are good friends, and considered him as “definitely one of the best Chinese players”, I must tell you that is not true. Although his strategy is somewhat efficient, it is also very risky and we believe it will not work without revealing map before actually start. He also has a bad reputation on Chinese forums, since he always claims he's strategy is the best, much better than all others. He laughed at people with different ideas, and made many conclusions (i.e. builder is definitely the best beginning options [which we are skeptical about it unless you reveal the map and know where you are, who's your neighbor, where to find natural wonders and city-states, where is the barb-camp and if it has horses or not], CH is definitely the worst district [that remains a debate because Chinese main SV strategy is CH-BigBen-Freedom Gov then patron all the information Great Scientists, chop trees for Spaceport and ban say goodbye to AIs. This is 0~1t after Spaceport done then victory play. Although, we've also explored IZ method, kinda worked but a little slower than CH. Pure Campus though, never tried so can't comment on it. But THIS IS NOT THE ONLY METHOD of PLAY], all victories should definitely focus on science because 1 science=2~5 prod [interesting], all deity game should finish before T150 [he said this to even newbies who were still struggling in king level 300+ turn play!], and many others), but never makes videos or reports to prove himself, or tell strategy details claiming that he wouldn't have discussion with anyone who won't agree with him.

    On the other hand, till now the best BRs and videos by Chinese players never adopted his so-called best strategies. Players active on PvP said never saw such player named 11248, not to say got beaten up and quit game by his 27 turn 7 cities while keeping a strong army "miracle". Later he was discovered using 2 accounts boasting each other on his "best strategy", which brought his reputation down. What is worse, he went to edit Chinese WIKI, adding his to-be-discussed "best strategy" to WIKI items with the wording being something like "this is an absolute true". The WIKI admin team had to permanently ban him in late April last year, and closed new user register just because of him.

    Since you are an influential researcher in real life, I hope you are not fooled by such a person. He is notorious to Chinese Civ Fans of plaguing Civ5 and Civ6 forums. Last time he posted he claimed to migrate to CFC here, and got some 1st of GotMs, taunting that "being an international master player" and looked down to Chinese players. That was why later Rogue-Star and Dandelion came and participated the GotM. Since you know him, and a 1st place GotM player shouldn't be too difficult to find, could you tell us what is his ID here? Issues from the Chinese forum should be solved there, not here.

    The link of the videos is actually shared on Chinese forum, and again with all the original author acknowledged and source cited. After all this high quality, no save/load, fast victory of detailed commentary is rare, a mind blower to everyone. @civtrader6, apologies again that I didn't contact you before posting your video to Chinese Forum. This is indeed a very precious tutorial and speed victory video. We had more text-image BRs than videos with commentary, and videos are more helpful to newbies. Grateful for your consent and best wishes!
     
    slowcar and HyJinkx like this.
  5. HyJinkx

    HyJinkx Chieftain

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    I do hope that this issue can be solved quickly because I would hate to see this thread end up locked because of this off topic controversy. I have very much enjoyed what civtrader has shared with us and it would be an awful shame. Maybe this could be taken to the admins via private message before it goes any further.

    So far I’m about half way through the second video and again it has turned out very useful in helping me see what steps you are taking and the pace you’re going at. I can already see how woefully lacking my attempts were just based on the amount of builders you are heading for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    I see.

    Firstly, about strategies, for me, his strategies are more interesting than most of these on this forum or so, especially your unexplained "peaceful 3-theatre". For "peaceful games", it is hard to let the AIs not declaring on me, for "3-theatres", it is hard for a non-Japan,non-Greece Civ. So I think your strategies are very very restricted to map conditions, maybe even have to do Save-and-Load, if I guessed correctly.

    I agree with 1science=2prod, since this is a value guideline for my play, too.
    For "all deity game should finish before T150", if victory condition not restricted, I definitely agree with this opinion. I can do that, too.
    I agree with the builder start, too. I think me and @civtrader6 both start with builders, so that is the correct strategy instead of "situational".
    For 27 turn 7 cities, in my online speed MP games this is well achievable, even with 10~15 Warriors or archers I think. Since you can capture disconnected player and city-states very easily. I don't know whether this is on "online" speed or not.
    For CH, I think it is bad, too. Though I still use them for Science Victories, or sometimes for Culture Victory when I need the +25% trade route bonus. But as you mentioned "150T", I suspect he mostly focuses on dom, no wonder he considers CH being worst district. I myself never build CHs on Dom victories, too.

    Are there any other issues about his strategy? I'm curious about them. They seem very helpful, even for now.

    But I don't know his gotm id. Not every Gotm players discuss their strategies, some just post a save and say nothing. So you have to check that.

    You said Rogue-star and W-D come to Gotm, just to find a chance to overperform 11248? Do they succeed? Since they're not among the highest-level players here, if they're facing against 1st-tier players, no wonder they'll lose.

    One more issue, are you disrespecting him because of his above strategies? If so, I'm very sorry for that. The strategies are quite interesting and reasonable for me, but beginners may consider them "ridiculous".

    Or you disrespect him, just because he overperforms you with reasonable strategies, which makes you very annoying, since the best player in your forum "have" to be you, Wonder,or Rogue?:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:Your gameplay strength against him are on different levels, maybe even not adjacent levels.

    Or, one more guessing, are your Chinese forumers switch to "peaceful plays", just because you can't beat 11248 in standard plays? I'd like to know about his standard play results, though I know for sure these results will be better than the "peaceful" results you posted before, since he is a better MP player than me, I think his standard game ability shall not be worse than me.

    @civtrader6 Be careful about your copyrights, according to their words, they can share your video without informing you, and only informs(or maybe the acknowledgement is only added at that time) when someone else points out. I can imagine what they'll do if nobody points that out, at that time the video may be "produced" by either Sun, or Rogue, or Wandering.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  7. leif erikson

    leif erikson Game of the Month Fanatic Administrator Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Moderator Action: This is a strategy forum, that's what we are here to discuss. All this extra curricula discussion needs to stop. Discuss the topic, but not each other. Some members are here to learn, not read a bunch of drama.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2018
  8. bdoyle771

    bdoyle771 Chieftain

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    Nice teaser quote! I'm still digesting the Aztec win.
     
  9. Skiekai

    Skiekai Chieftain

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    @civtrader6 thank you for the second part.
    After playing this map a few times, it really helps to see how much little differences and different decisions can completely change the game. I'm learning a lot from you. I'm really curious to see the last parts.

    After my failed Big Ban rush I've tried in the last days the 'chop all space projects' in one turn strategy, neglecting the gold rush. I'm new to this forum and the meta of the game, so I wanted to try it.
    I was able to finish the game in T130 chopping all space projects in the last turn (mostly for the fun), or T127 chopping the mars project early and using the culture boost to help reach globalization for the massive boost in science,
    saving some turns and chopping the last 3 projects in the last one.

    My considerations:
    - I was able to get only the +20% Hong Kong bonus. I confirm that +30% Democracy bonus don't applies. After all space projects research completed, a wooden chop was 185 production for me, so I needed 8,25 chops for a full projects. Not easy to find but not impossible. The hard part is to plan at least 30 turns ahead, for moving all the builders and settlers in position.
    - It is very tedious to save all last charge builder. I was not sure how many I would build, so I begin to spare the last charge very early in the game, and I believe it slows you a lot in the begin-mid game.
    - I didn't build the Big Bang, But I build the forbidden city. I was a little late in building it (10 turns delay minmum) so I'm not sure how much it helped me.
    - Chopping all projects you need a lot of gold to buy the tiles. I spent around 4-5K.
    - I went for Monarchy and the +150% wall overflow. I'm not sure if it helped me with the fast finish or not.

    I would like to thank @civtrader6 , @Boyan_Sun, @Lily_Lancer, and @Victoria for all the great advices i found in this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2018
  10. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Great. Chopping Mars project early surely helps. A new point for the chopping method.
    If you go for Great Scientist you need 60,000 gold, but if you only need money to buy tiles that will be well affordable.
    Also, purchasing tiles as early as you can, since the cost of purchasing tiles scale with science/culture development, too.
    I'm glad my chop theory works. Also glad for a new T127 record here.
    You can try the other map, which civtrader got T120 SV, I believe you'll break the T120 threshold.
     
  11. Ondolindë

    Ondolindë Chieftain

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    Thanks @civtrader6. Thank you for sharing your tips and experience, and what you have learned from others. I'm looking forward to more. Learning a lot!
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  13. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    I mean "store the last charge builder". It's your theory, too.
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    From what I understand the Chinese were doing it ages before us, let’s just call it a theory.
    It’s like the masochists theory, you can get there faster but you get pain the the wrist from those builders along the way.
    :queen:
     
  15. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Chieftain

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    I am glad you like it. It really is fantastic.
     
  16. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi Livio, chopping all the projects is remarkable. Great success.
    I am always very worried about missing big ben - thats why I keep trying to find a city where I can save chops to make sure I can get it in time - for example, three woods around the river - build lumbermils, to get +two production and later chop etc. And in the Aztec game - I even went doing projects to snatch the Great Engineer just to be sure in success. Later it turned out - I could have probably done it even without the GE - but, didnt want to risk.

    I know what you mean with builders - I made so many mistakes in my game because there were sooo many builders I could not properly plan what to do. So most of my chops and decisions were not optimal.
    How many spaceports did you have? Any screenshots before the final chops?
     
  17. Skiekai

    Skiekai Chieftain

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    Hi, I've built 5 spaceports.
    I'm attaching the save files for my 130T and 127T finishes of the games, I hope they can be useful.
    To be able to finish so fast I needed to replay and reload the game a lot of times: I've improved my early game watching your videos, but I'm inexperienced in the mid and late game.
    In this try, I've maximised the number of districts built in cities to abuse the Kumasi bonus and the +1 culture/district that is very strong in the mid-game. But I'm considering if building more Theater Square and less CH could be better if you don't need the big bang rush. The main limit I found was the necessity to hard research the majority of Industrial and Modern Era Civics.
    I'm attaching a mid-game save too, any advice is appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  18. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    @civtrader6 thank you very much for this, I was able to get my first sub 200 victory with this map today! Id love to know how to improve on this! 20180120170229_1.jpg 20180120170229_1.jpg 20180120170229_1.jpg 20180120170211_1.jpg
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 21, 2018
  19. anandus

    anandus Errorist

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    Great videos, @civtrader6! Very informative and helpful!

    Is there a part 3 upcoming?
     
  20. gadgetfreaky

    gadgetfreaky Chieftain

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    @civtrader6 Thanks a lot for posting this video.
    I was a bit surprised you don't really improve tiles- you seem to go more the harvest route and wait for yields to get high enough. I suppose if you are playing in a fast game - 128 turns - it matters less.
    Also surprised you would rather conquer non culture science city states. It was very interesting.
    looking forward to Part 3!
     

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