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Science Victory Strategy (and boasting!) Compendium ツ

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by yung.carl.jung, Nov 23, 2016.

?

what Civ are we playing as?

  1. SUMERIA

    2 vote(s)
    8.0%
  2. SCYTHIA

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. MACEDON

    3 vote(s)
    12.0%
  4. AZTEC

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  5. GERMANY

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  6. ROME

    4 vote(s)
    16.0%
  7. OTHER (please specify itt)

    6 vote(s)
    24.0%
  1. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Amazing how similiar our playstyle are, whacker. Only thing I hugely do different is that I like more scouts and slightly delay 1st. Settler. Probably a bad decision anyway. I really like your idea of rushbuying a Caravan to boost a new city, I usually rushbuy a Worker or Settler.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2016
  2. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    Thanks, that should help.
     
  3. fortydayweekend

    fortydayweekend Chieftain

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    Damn, where did I get that from? Cheers.

    Do you need to actually put a turn's worth of cogs into it? Just placing a district and immediately changing production seems to lock in the cost OK.
     
  4. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    This is correct.
     
  5. fortydayweekend

    fortydayweekend Chieftain

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    T193 as Rome, Small Continents map with 8 Civs, Deity

    Had Stockholm, Geneva and Seoul nearby, no Hong Kong (it was captured by Spain on the other continent early on)

    Great start - Iron 2 tiles from Rome, took a Greek settler with starting warrior, 2 Greek cities with 3 archers + warrior, then England with legions and Norway with legions and crossbows by about t100. 20 cities by turn 120.

    Took some of the advice in this thread and ignored early science, building 3 IZ + workshops and CD / trader in other cities. Most conquered cities had Harbours so I didn't build CDs in them. Late expos at turn 100+ just went straight to Bath/Campus.

    I don't think I'm doing the end-game right - only 16,000 in the bank after Big Ben meant I had to wait a while to buy Kwolek and Sagan. If I'd had 20,000 gold when finishing Big Ben instead of 8,000 I could have had them 10-15 turns earlier. Is it better to build loads of markets and banks now to be able to get through the GP at the end?
     
    whacker and yung.carl.jung like this.
  6. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    Markets I think are almost always worth it, Banks are debatable really. It also depends on when you build them, obviously the earlier the better. Later on you should just be building GP projects. Congrats on your Sub-200 Win!
     
  7. whacker

    whacker Warlord

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    You never stop learning... :) Thank you!

    After 2 games with the new patch i think the bottleneck for a sub 160SV is culture. You certainly can finish the tech tree or amass a large enough amount of gold earlier but as you have to wait for Democracy anyways, i think it is worth to build banks. The alternative would be campus projects, but i find it hard to get Democracy before finishing the tech tree, so you can use the extra gold to buy trader/worker. I also buy 4 sewers for the heureka.
     
  8. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    So would Greece be a counter-intuitive pick? Both leaders' unique abilities boost culture (though Pericles' seem better for late game for earlier Democracy). You can also run extra policies throughout the game.
     
  9. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    No, I think Greece would be a solid pick actually. Though I like Gorgo better than Master P. To me it seems like Rome is definitely among the top picks for SV now, when I get home in 3 weeks I'll definitely be playing as Sumeria and Rome mostly!
     
  10. fortydayweekend

    fortydayweekend Chieftain

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    A bit of maths might help... a market built in t120 running for 50 turns would produce 150 gold. Big Ben makes that 300, and Democracy makes it 600 in terms of buying GPP. At 15 gold / GPP that's 40 GPP towards Sagan/Kwolek for each market. Free Market (+100% commercial building yields) doubles it again, so you end up buying 40-80 GPP depending on how long you spend running Free Market. Plus you get 50 GPP to Merchants.

    Alternatively the market's 105 production cost in Campus Projects would yield roughly 21 GPP (and 16 science), so it's definitely worth building markets, maybe even if they finish 12 or so turns before the Big Ben / Democracy / buy Sagan/Kwolek finish.

    Banks are 265 prod for 5 gold, or 2.67 GPP/turn with the 3 doubles. The 265 prod is 53 GPP in Campus Projects so you'd need 20 turns of a completed bank for it to work out better.

    Yep, for me Democracy came more than 10 turns after finishing all the Mars techs.
     
    yung.carl.jung likes this.
  11. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Been a while without any posts here (which is a shame, since there's much good advice), so I present my first turn-200 Science Victory! Emperor, Continents map, Small size (though with 2 additional AIs because I never seem to find them before turn 20), standard speed. I went Rome, because of the afore-mentioned culture starvation (and I feel it really makes a difference, especially early-game)
    • My opener was quite the standard one: Slinger > Builder > 3x Slinger/Archer > Warrior > Settler. I like to open with 3 Slingers, but I wanted to experiment.
    • As usual, early expansion, building Settlers non-stop until around turn 70, exceptfor some occasional unit) and conquest. A single Legion can suck up early walls and take a city with around 25 health, depending on city defense. Took out Japan, China, Jerusalem and Kandy (I spared Auckland in hopes of coastal oil, and for the production bonus).
    • Then Feudalism wave to chop and improve all those tiles. Serfdom stayed for quite a while due to the amount of tiles.
    • I began building districts around turn 80 (dunno if I should build them earlier). This time, I tried encampments, though they were a little late because I preferred Commercial Hubs and Campi. Still, the extra production from trade routes is nice, and the other bonuses (housing, production, experience) are minor but still.
    • After that, just building up trade routes, buildings and other districts. Eventually, I built the Colosseum, though it took longer than expected (I almost forgot to place an EC, had to wait for ~4 turns for a new district slot in one of my cities)
    • Eventually I got the last Great Prophet, and Work Ethic was still available. Yay for more production!
    • Near the end I finished Big Ben,but Carl Sagan showed up after I spent my money. Still, I had many Campus projects ongoing, which lowered the cost enough in a few turns to buy him.
    • Tech-wise, I was pretty lax, because I didn't want to skip many eras and lose that many Great People. Got a few interesting ones without rushing eras.
    • Civic-wise I went Political Philosophy > Feudalism > Exploration > Mercantilism > Enlightenment > Suffrage.
    I think that wraps up how much of my game was. I did a few mistakes here and there that might've cost some 3 turns. What did I learn from my playthrough?
    • Really, I shouldn't stop expanding before 20 cities. That's what probably made the difference, since I didn't vary much my strategy. Having 20 cities before turn 90 is pretty much GG.
    • Even if I had met only China or Japan, I think I might be able to reach 20 cities before turn 100, just spamming Settlers.
    • No need to rush eras by beelining Factories. There are many good techs that boosts improvements along the way.
    • I began to like Encampments. More production for trade routes is really impactful, and the small boosts from its buildings are just icing on the cake.
    • Some people like 4-pop cities. I'd say to go for at least size 7. This way, you accomodate Commercial Hubs, Campi and a 3rd district. Size 10 is a bit hard to get, but doable (especially with Baths). I'd build now Granaries, Aqueducts, Universities and Barracks in my core cities just to reach pop 10 and be able to place one more district (IZ or Harbor for more cogs)
     

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  12. Monthar

    Monthar Deity

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    @ Whacker
    When do you finish building all those districts you only put 1 turn into?
     
  13. whacker

    whacker Warlord

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    I finish districts after the initial army/settler buildup and when the builder has 1 turn left for completion. Always finish campi and CD before getting the respective buildings. Don`t delay districts by building traders and just get them afterwards. (The only exception are the 4 traders you need for the boost.)
    Basically i put all production into districts until they are finished only halted to get a builder benefitting from the Ilkum policy, right before Feudalism.
    The reason for getting districts up and running asap (other than adjacency and GP points) is the envoy bonus from city states, which is massive in early- and midgame.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  14. whacker

    whacker Warlord

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    Hey guys, now that the Aztecs are unlocked, i decided to give them a try.
    The settings were emperor, continents, the rest standard/default.

    The result is a t148 SV, in my opinion they are the best civ by far right now.

    The eaglewarrior is borderline broken, generating an absurd amount of builders if you keep fighting city states/ai`s, which is what you do most of the game anyway. In combination with the UA, you can build military/settler/wonders/more builder, while finishing your districts with builder charges. I found the Pyramids to be even better with the Aztecs and having all those builders early on allowed me to chop them in t53.
    The ULA is fantastic as well, providing +5-10 combat strength in the midgame, making the Aztec military as good as Scythia`s.

    The UA allows you to get your spaceport up in 4 turns in any city, so the construction time no longer is a bottleneck. Another fantastic thing about the UA is that later cities will be as good as your early ones, making going wide even more rewarding.
    I also found it to be very satisfying to finally be able to actually improve all the tiles you want to work.

    For gold generation i gave the Great Zimbabwe a try this time and i`m really convinced by that wonder. Because i didn`t have a decent spot for it on my home continent i conquered Seoul, which had 6 bonus resources. The rest was the same stuff as discussed here before. :)

    20170121164304_1.jpg
     

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  15. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    That's a freaking huge amount of mines around, that's for sure. Except for the tundra, it's almost a perfect map (though I usually prefer more plains hills, but grassland hills help with food issues anyway). Did you get that map on first roll?

    EDIT: What about the afore-mentioned culture botttleneck?
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
  16. whacker

    whacker Warlord

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    Yep, the map was a first roll. In the beginning i wasn`t even sure wether to like it or not because there were sofew good places to settle around Tenochtitlan. Conquest helped. :D
    For culture it is really important to get Colloseum asap, in this game i got it around t80. Monuments first in every city, except capital. This leads to a quick Civil Service and Meritocracy, which solves all culture problems. It also is important to get most of the heurekas.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
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  17. fortydayweekend

    fortydayweekend Chieftain

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    Wow... I see what you mean. I just played through to T50 and had 12 builders captured. Insane.

    How late could you keep finishing units with Eagle Warriors though? I can't imagine them doing too well against crossbows and swords, let alone anything later.
     
  18. paulthebug

    paulthebug Warlord

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    @whacker,
    <snip>, T148 Science victory?!?! Hat off to you, man. :thumbsup:
    Inspired by you, I'd decided to give Monty a try myself.
    It is already T129, and I'm no way near what you'd achieved in your game.
    Care to give me some pointers what did I do wrong?
    I suspect I warred too lousily.
    Attached is the T001 & T129 files. Maybe you can give it a go?

    Moderator Action: Please refrain from trying to defeat the autocensor. Phrase snipped. -- Jon
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 23, 2017
  19. whacker

    whacker Warlord

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    They actually stay useful longer than i expected. The ULA really helps them to stay competetive with the likes of swordsmen/xbows. When the public works policy card becomes available you no longer need them because builder chopping is better at that point.

    I just wanted to open your save files, but unfortunatelly i don`t have the DLC`s. Sry:undecide:
     
  20. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    So maybe they're better in Huge maps, with more luxuries?

    I also wonder if Buenos Aires bonus counts towards those luxuries, if so then they really stand up to Swordsmen (hell, with some promotions and a Great General they might even not lose so hard to Knights). Might fire up a game at Prince just to find out that. It's a shame that those luxury-giving Great Merchants come so late...
     

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