Science Victory

[TommyVern]

Immortal/small/earth/standard

Just won as Siam, science victory, on turn 363. I had a fairly large tech lead over the other 5 civs, allowing me to defend myself all game from many, many wars. I had just once city, pop 36 when finished. Rushed GL--> Theology, Built HS for a GE. Went to Theo. and rushed the PT. Worked up towards astronomy, built hanging gardens, bulbed astonomy, and went into Rationalism. At this point I started signing RA's working toward Scientific Method, then onto Apollo Mission. Of course the whole time selling extra lux's and open borders.

Any suggestions on what I can change, I've read people finishing in the 1600,1700,1800's. Believe my launch was around 1915-1920, something like that.


Thanks in advance.

 

[qalsip1977]

Well my immediate suggestion would to pick a scientific civ!! Babylon or Korea are the obvious picks. I prefer Korea because I absolutely love the "super tall" strat with them (ToA, HG, Tradition finisher). See my post here about one game I had.

With Korea's UA I would use the GA to make their tile improvement, GS to bulb or to make tile improvements, GE to rush wonders, and GM to keep CS in good shape. Along with Patronage and all the CS in your pocket it makes winning with Korea a no brainer. I'm pretty sure if I played them again with the intention of getting the fastest science win I could do it at least in the 1800s.

Babylon would be my 2nd choice. You really need 4-5 cities with HS, gardens, and such going to take full advantage of their UA...and even then I'd be surprised to see the statistics on GS from Korea with all their specialists pumping out .

 

[ahawk]

First of all, did you build the National College national wonder? National College can be built after GL and is a huge boost. I assume you probably did, but in the OP there isn't a mention of either it, or of Oxford University.

Good planning of the completion of the following items is usually what you need to have the quickest science win:

Great Library (can use the free tech to bulb philosophy and immediately begin the national college)
Oxford University (complete it at a time when you can bulb a far-off tech ~20 turns away or so)
Rationalism (the last policy gives TWO free techs... bulb towards rocketry at this point)

Hagia Sophia is useful, but if it slows down getting the NC, building a university, etc, then it's not vital. The exception is Babylon: Babylon naturally gets quicker GS from its UA, but the Hagia stacks on top of that to pump out GS at a high rate (especially so with a Garden and with the national wonder that provides the GP boost)

A big consideration is timing the completion of the items I listed, as well as timing when to settle another city. Settling a second city right after the NC is a good strat, since by then it won't take long to wait on the settler to pop out (and the turns of lost growth to build the settler won't be as severe as they are at the very start of the game), and only having one city will allow the NC to be built in no time.

Siam is not bad for science victory since the Wat produces both culture and science (helps with completing Rationalism quickly)
Babylon is a beast if you maximize the rate of GS birth.
Korea is excellent as well.
China makes for a less obvious choice, but the UB is a great way to allow yourself to build more farms and fewer trading posts, thus allowing each city to grow faster and have more specialists, should you want to go a little less tall than usual.

 

[RealHuhn]

Any suggestions on what I can change

Build more cities?!? Pretty obvious isn't it?

 

[qalsip1977]

The highest science output I've ever had was with Korea. Using the super-tall strategy I was cranking out over 1200 science (had all of the CS as well, with Patronage maxed out). I bet in deity you could save your cash, not sign RAs, and still win a science victory. 2 cities is all I had. You might try Korea, get Hwachas as early as you can for defense, and just rock the science. I've also done Korea in an attempt at a OCC on deity and I actually got Future Tech before I could ever win a cultural victory...then I lost the game to America who built the SS components I should have built.

Give Korea a shot

 

[chazzycat]

yeah build a couple more cities, 3 is probably ideal. Choosing a scientific civ (ie Babylon or Korea) will significantly speed things up.

363 is pretty late, most of the time immortal AI have won by that time, so consider yourself lucky.

Are you setting up great scientist factories? ie. cities with both specialist spot in the university used? You should be able to crank out at least 5 or 6 GS over the course of the game, 8 or 9 with Babylon. Don't use them right away...save them to use for the last most expensive techs. Same goes for Oxford & the 2 free ones from Rationalism. This way you can literally jump straight from the end of the industrial age, into the future age, in 1 turn. It sounds like you already have the RA part down - just use RAs to get to the end of industrial ASAP then use your scientists. You can launch by turn 250 or so if everything goes well.

 

[basta]

^Good advice, but it's so hard to let all those GSs just sit there for 100-150 turns with a freakin'
Harry Potter buggy convention going on around Babylon.

Anyway, a pure science game is pretty much impossible at immortal and I think, especially with Babylon, that you have to gear up for war after building the NC and crush the first civ that attacks you with your bowmen, and TP-spam the conquered cities for gpt. Otherwise you'll always be struggling for cash and happiness, and science will lag.

 

[chazzycat]

haha, yeah, I know what you mean about keeping GS laying around. It's very tempting to use them, and they cost maintenance as well. But the power of this strategy can't be denied.

It's certainly possible to do pure science on immortal, if you are somewhat isloated. As Babylon it can be done on deity...I just attempted this for the first time over the weekend. I lost, but only by 7 turns and with a mediocre start, so I know it's doable. Gold is definitely a major concern but can be overcome with selling luxes, strategics, & open borders constantly.

 

[flairin]

The highest science output I've ever had was with Korea. Using the super-tall strategy I was cranking out over 1200 science (had all of the CS as well, with Patronage maxed out). I bet in deity you could save your cash, not sign RAs, and still win a science victory. 2 cities is all I had. You might try Korea, get Hwachas as early as you can for defense, and just rock the science. I've also done Korea in an attempt at a OCC on deity and I actually got Future Tech before I could ever win a cultural victory...then I lost the game to America who built the SS components I should have built.

Give Korea a shot

Yeah, Korea is killer. With only three cities and no city states I was cranking out 900 beakers in the 1800's. My capital alone was close to 500 beakers and its size was in the low 20's...

 

[Artingel78]

Siam is good for any victory so you don't be wrong with civ. You be wrong to have 1 city.I prefer 6 good placed cities for Domination.And then you can have more than +1000 per turn.

 

[fmlizard2]

For me and , wider is better. I can bring a win in around the mid-late 1700s...some here can do better than that, but that is winning Civ up at least to Immortal.

My best win was actually as Hiawatha on an Immortal pangaea. Started with my handful of cities deep in the forest and jungle (jungle helps, +3 with a university and trading post). Slow, measured conquest from there, picking off chunks of my neighbors and building a base of puppets. Spammed trading posts with the +1 from them policy. Tossed in RAs when I could get them. Better than anything I put together turtling and teching with 4-5 cities as Babylon.

 

[Tabarnak]

With close and aggressive neighbors, i like to beeline a strong military tech and crush the civ before going for Education. Chivalry, Steel or Machinery around turn 75-80 can do the job. Oversell luxuries(until you are close to -9) to the victim and charge.

 

[Hasire]

Wide is better because wide=more gold=more RAs.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Unless it's hardware depended you probably should play on bigger map.
More opponents + more CS's = more RA's + more from trade + more allies.

I also think wider is better, but it's the matter of personal preference. From my experience, if population is big enough, the difference becomes significant only in early Industrial or so. At this point most of come from RA's and GS's anyway so per turn isn't that crucial. To keep good teching pace in pre-industrial eras ally as many maritime CS's as possible and grow grow grow.