"Only the last line is up for argument.
Remove that fear and you are free.
Just because you no longer fear the lies spewed by the church,
Doesnt mean you are going to buy an MP40 and spray the neighbours..."
Of course not. At least for people like you or me. But I think there are SOME people whose "worst nature" is stayed by belief in something bad happening to them if they indulge it.
Take for instance a typical human's moral development: At infancy, there is no "right or wrong", just innocence. As a child grows, he is discouraged from doing bad things by punishment--he is at a stage where if there were no punishment, he'd do the bad things because there is no DEEPER reason in his mind not to do them.
Now, SOME people mature beyond that, and start seeing that there are indeed GOOD reasons to do good things and avoid bad things, OUTSIDE of themselves and what may or may not happen to them directly. Unfortunately, not EVERYONE matures to this degree. Or else they ignore this for whatever Macchiavellian mindset they adopt. It can be argued that religion may temper such people (well, the former type, not the Macchiavellians), by implying a punishment they cannot supposedly escape.
"Such thinking is caused by religion...remove it from your mind."
Religion is hardly the sole source of violent impulses. NATURE is violent--and I don't see wolves (who kill each other as well as their prey) bowing before a god. What you mean is that religion has sometimes been CHANNELED by manipulative people to convince them to do violence. But then again, so have other things. Did Pol Pot or Josef Stalin channel religion into violence?
"Religion champions fear and oppression, especially against
Women, the old and the weak. Early indoctrination is also used."
Before religion, "the old and the weak" were likely abandoned by the nomadic neanderthal tribe. Rather practical in nature, though it does lack compassion. I'd say religion introduced some compassion where there wasn't any before.
Tell me something, is this thing "compassion" something rooted in science, or inherent to it? Or is it something that came from belief in something that wasn't quite so logical?
Oh, and as for women, there have been some religions that are very matriarchal--priestesses and such. I'd say "matriarchal" or "patriarchal" are more an element of culture than religion.
"This sick cycle has to be stopped."
Peacefully, or with violence if that doesn't work? Just wondering....
"Too many humans are trapped in this mire of ignorance and
Intolerance, pinned by fear and guilt programmed into them
From a young age, apparently you are 'born a sinner'...
"Utter balderdash."
I'm not a Christian in the conventional sense, although I do think that the example of Christ's life is a good one. And he was the ultimate pacifist....
But the way I look at "original sin" is that everybody has a kernel of evil in them--i.e. they are capable of doing evil to their fellow men. It is up to the person to recognize that capability and guard against temptation to use it. Nothing at all wrong with that.
"Just because some dubious man in a dress declares you a sinner
Means nothing, he probably has not mentioned that most
Priests are porno-freaks who abuse kids, harsh but true."
"MOST"? I'll have to ask you to back that up statistically, being as you are a dedicated disciple of science....
All the media attention on a FEW doesn't mean that MOST men of the cloth engage in such things--just that the ones who don't aren't "newsworthy".
But I agree that it is a problem that the Church needs to seriously correct--and they are not above the law either. I hardly believe that churches should be above the law--I am a firm believer in separation of church and state, as are quite a few Christians I know personally.
But we are forgetting those priests that DO abstain from these acts, and who have for hundreds of years done good things like feed and shelter the poor when few others could or would, counseled the depressed, etc. Things done from COMPASSION--pure scientific calculation would probably come to the cold but logical decision of letting only the fit survive, right? Such is the way of nature, after all. Which is what I mean when I said in the last post, that religion can temper the cold, logical reasoning of science when it becomes too excessively utilitarian. There is more to life than utility and logic, after all....
"I am glad I was never forced into this sick and twisted religion,
And I hail the day I came to the conclusion that to escape the
Madness of religion and conformity, you have to break the fear.
"The promises made by priests are a lie...
The threats made by priests are a lie..."
You sound angry. Perhaps too angry to reflect on things more subtle than the black-and-white you present to us here.
Simply put--religion can be used for good OR for evil. As can science....
"Take that huge weight off of your spirit...
Break your guilt chains people!"
I am a slave to no one but my conscience. And that is a GOOD thing. And with some people, their consciences need encouragement by some sort of faith. As long as it is pure and not twisted into evil itself, it is a good thing.
This is how I feel.
