Science yield will be much less important

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I have just realized it looks like science as yield will be vastly less important in civ6.

1) Now significant part of progress is unlocked by culture instead, in the separate tree (maybe even half of "techs" depends on culture income now)
2) Of those which remain within the grasp of science, all except the very first ones can be discovered vastly faster with boosts (Eurekas) having nothing to do with science yield
3) Add to this usual impact of great scientists etc

How do you think this will affect the game?
 
Imo, this can only be a good thing. In all previous iterations, science has dominated the game to a detrimental extent. In Civ V, in order not to pick the Rationalism policy tree, you had to a) be an idiot and/or inexperienced player; b) plan to conquer the world in short order; or c) roleplay as a stagnant religious empire (etc). I hope that they'll keep science boosts to very small numbers in Civ VI. In combination with the factors that you mention, this might finally mean that the stranglehold of all-powerful science is broken.

Ideally, a heavy science focus, a heavy cultural focus, or a mix of science/culture focus would produce equally powerful outcomes, just in different ways. In practice, since new units will mostly come from the tech tree, the culture tree will need some major boosts to defense in order to remain viable against highly advanced technological empires. Civ V's abysmal policy tree balance does not have me in high hopes, as the balancing that is required is even more difficult to achieve than it was with that system. But if they do manage it, this will be the greatest Civ game to date (assuming there are no game-breaking flaws in other areas).
 
It will give more variety and flavour to the game, I feel. It depends how much we have to devote to do the quests. I do not think all of them will be possible to do in one game. So it will be a matter of choice, strategy or playstyle, goals etc.
 
Thats what they are aiming for...I'll believe it when I see it.
(Larger empires have only one (mentioned) type of penalty ..science.
Its important enough to be the sole ICS limiter so far.
 
Ideally, a heavy science focus, a heavy cultural focus, or a mix of science/culture focus would produce equally powerful outcomes, just in different ways.
I disagree with the "heavy" in combination with "equally powerful outcomes".

I think that specializing too much should come with great penalties on the other side of the coin that outweigh the benefits. That way every strategy needs to somewhat keep the balance while pushing a bit towards one side.
 
Presumably, there are some victories associated with technologies at the end of the tech tree, and there are some victories associated with Civics in the end of the culture tree.

Obviously, better units will be unlocked through the technology tree. But better war-oriented governments and policies will be unlocked through Civics.

So it's not necessarily that science is nerfed. It will now be rivaled by culture, and hopefully by a thoughtful Balance of the two.
 
I think science will be less important which is a good thing since it used to be the thing to focus on. But I still suspect that falling back in science will not be something you'll be able to safely do.
 
I think science will be less important which is a good thing since it used to be the thing to focus on. But I still suspect that falling back in science will not be something you'll be able to safely do.

Unless you wish Civ 1 mechanics to come back. Milita wins with a tank :lol:

Actually, I wish Civ 1 would be given a lot more care right now. Why this classic game has to be the way it is? Why can't it be improved? This is still a great game for me, even though such faults could be fixed after so many years. I also wish that Firaxis would actually consider it to be re-worked some time in the future, re-made, it would be awesome esp. for mobile audience. Sid think about it. It is yours. And I still do love Civ 1, the way it is, though it does need to be improved today. You can do it today, so do it. :D
 
It's more like a Greatswordsman from an advanced police state can defeat a tank from a hereditary monarchy.
 
I think its not science that is less important, its rather that culture is more important now, maybe as much important as science. I have also thought that it may be quite possible to have some units require both a tech and a civic to unlock. In Civ 5 there are some wonders like Hanging Gardens requiring a tech and a social policy, so the devs could easily extend the principle to many other things. So, Knights would require Chivalry from civics and metal casting from tech tree. It's only my speculation, but it would make culture even more important than we think of it now. What do you think?
 
I think its not science that is less important, its rather that culture is more important now, maybe as much important as science. I have also thought that it may be quite possible to have some units require both a tech and a civic to unlock. In Civ 5 there are some wonders like Hanging Gardens requiring a tech and a social policy, so the devs could easily extend the principle to many other things. So, Knights would require Chivalry from civics and metal casting from tech tree. It's only my speculation, but it would make culture even more important than we think of it now. What do you think?

Would be cool, would remind me of Civ 4, where you had to have say both Hunting and Bronze Working to unlock Spearmen.
 
We need to see a lot more information before we declare science to be anything less than essential.

If you'll recall, in the early period of CiV the only real purpose of beakers was to clear enough of the early tree that you could bomb in all the late-game, expensive techs with Great Scientists and Research Agreements (whose effectiveness was not initially tied to beaker production). But since the win conditions were all locked behind doors where science was the key, the early beakers still mattered a great deal to how quickly you reached a win condition. It wasn't entirely about GPP, gold and playing well with others even in the period when beakers were de-emphasized.

Once we know more about how the win conditions are unlocked and the precise interactions between culture and tech (and between Eurekas and tech), we can say something more substantive about how much beaker production is really going to matter.
 
There are definitely ways for Science to still be very important while having a science-focused empire be less important.

One way would be for there to be really powerful catch-up mechanics. It could be that someone who really doesn't invest much in science will only be a bit behind someone who goes for heavy science - like, if you neglect science, you won't be stuck with Spearmen against Marines, you'll end up with, like, Riflemen against Musketmen. So going for a science focus would let you beeline key technologies a little earlier for getting wonders, and will give your military an advantage, but not one that can't be overcome by other means.

Another way is for there to be lots of ways to make progress in science besides having high beakers-per-turn. This seems to be what Civ 6 is doing, with Eureka moments - a civ that has lots of ways of getting the eureka moments will be able to keep up with a science-focused civ that just gets things the hard way.
 
I wonder if there will also be Eureka moments (presumably called something else) for cultural advances? It's kind of hard to think of examples, as they're more abstract than science techs, but I'm sure they could come up with something.
 
I think its not science that is less important, its rather that culture is more important now, maybe as much important as science. I have also thought that it may be quite possible to have some units require both a tech and a civic to unlock. In Civ 5 there are some wonders like Hanging Gardens requiring a tech and a social policy, so the devs could easily extend the principle to many other things. So, Knights would require Chivalry from civics and metal casting from tech tree. It's only my speculation, but it would make culture even more important than we think of it now. What do you think?

Well some Wonders/buildings (not sure about units)
Will be unlocked by ONLY civics.
Also Eras....so you could be in the "Renaissance Era" and not have metal working. (You have Renaissance Era civics, and not Renaissance Era techs
 
It would be the first time science would not be zewaytogo in civ and that 's refreshing.

The only valid catch up was the BNW double spying autocratie that allowed you to catch up when you had been warring a lot. You could then win even if you were behind in science as long as you had carefully chosen the targets to maim with your army.
 
I wonder if there will also be Eureka moments (presumably called something else) for cultural advances? It's kind of hard to think of examples, as they're more abstract than science techs, but I'm sure they could come up with something.
There are Eurekas for civics too, we've seen it in preview videos, with requirements like growing your poulation and so on.
 
There are Eurekas for civics too, we've seen it in preview videos, with requirements like growing your poulation and so on.
Ok, thanks for the info. I don't tend to watch any game-related videos, as the mumbly or high-pitched voices that the players usually have can really grate on my nerves. So far I've seen one or two youtubers with a tolerable speaking voice. :crazyeye:
 
I wonder if there will also be Eureka moments (presumably called something else) for cultural advances? It's kind of hard to think of examples, as they're more abstract than science techs, but I'm sure they could come up with something.

Some of the examples we got from gameplay videos and SSs:

Code of Laws (No Eureka, likely one of the first few civics)
Foreign Trade (Discover a second continent)
Military Tradation (Clear a Barbarian Outpost)
Early empire (Grow your civilization to at least 6 pop)
State Worforce (build any district)
Craftsmanship (Improve 3 tiles)
 
I'm pretty sure in my first game I'll just end up spending the whole game doing these sidequests for Eureka moments...
 
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