Scientific Great Leader

[WeirdoJoker]

I got a SGL playing Vikings on Monarch. I don't think I've ever had a SGL while playing a non-scientific Civ (contrast one of my games playing a sci. civ., in which I got something like 7 of them). Anyway, it's 900AD, working on MilTrad for tech. I'm thinking I should hang on to the SGL for ToE. Any particular ways I should be looking at this?

 

[jarred!]

How are you planning on winning and have newton's or copernicus' been built?

 

[tjs282]

If there are no Medieval GWs available (that you want), and you're winning, I'd suggest prebuilding TOE as you research towards SciMethod, and reserving the SGL for a more expensive Industrial GW, e.g. Hoovers if you want the production boost (or UniSuff, maybe, if you're warring).

 

[vmxa]

Just note that you cannot generate a mil great leader, if you have any type of leader.

 

[vorlon_mi]

Just note that you cannot generate a mil great leader, if you have any type of leader.

This. This is the important difference between Civ3 and the great people in Civ4, 5, and 6. One wants to use a leader, either MGL or SGL relatively quickly, because elite victories can't produce a new MGL while your current leader is sitting on the porch, sipping a drink.

When I am fortunate enough to get an SGL in the Middle Ages, I check to see if there are any wonders that were on my 2nd tier list that I could rush with the SGL. Be careful of the wonder cascade, though; I once lost Copes -- despite having a good prebuild -- because I opportunistically rushed Leonardo's Workshop with a leader, and the various AI switched their builds and finished it before I could.

If I'm not at war, and don't plan to be warring for 10 turns or more, I might consider saving an SGL for later. Often my super-science city, where I intend to build both Copes and Newtons, will not have the highest shields-per-turn. So saving the SGL to rush Newtons might make sense if I'm at peace.

In the Industrial Age, I usually have a good prebuild for ToE. Getting an SGL would be most often used for rushing Hoover Dam.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

How are you planning on winning and have newton's or copernicus' been built?

Hoping for Domination. Neither of those has been build ... Copes is in progress by Carthage & France, but technologically too early for Newton's.

If there are no Medieval GWs available (that you want), and you're winning, I'd suggest prebuilding TOE as you research towards SciMethod, and reserving the SGL for a more expensive Industrial GW, e.g. Hoovers if you want the production boost (or UniSuff, maybe, if you're warring).

This sounds like a good way to go ... I can wait & see on Hoovers & UniSuff, but probably would want to go for the former.

Tried warring against France & only got one city (but an important one - gave me saltpeter) before I ran out of steam & had to force them into a peace treaty. Building up forces to make a second go at it.

This. This is the important difference between Civ3 and the great people in Civ4, 5, and 6. One wants to use a leader, either MGL or SGL relatively quickly, because elite victories can't produce a new MGL while your current leader is sitting on the porch, sipping a drink.

This I did not know, as I've more often gone for the Spaceship. Already had one MGL and have an army of Berserkers getting ready to head to France. Question about that, too: can an Army of Berserkers attack from a ship like individual ones can? And what if such an Army has, say, one non-Berserker in it?

When I am fortunate enough to get an SGL in the Middle Ages, I check to see if there are any wonders that were on my 2nd tier list that I could rush with the SGL. Be careful of the wonder cascade, though; I once lost Copes -- despite having a good prebuild -- because I opportunistically rushed Leonardo's Workshop with a leader, and the various AI switched their builds and finished it before I could.

. (Leo's already built in Paris anyway, which I plan on capturing.)

In the Industrial Age, I usually have a good prebuild for ToE. Getting an SGL would be most often used for rushing Hoover Dam.

Would Newton's be a good prebuild for ToE, or should I start with something older? I have Astronomy now (working on MilTrad), and two Civs already working on Copes.

 

[tjs282]

If Copes hasn't been built yet, SGL-ing it yourself in your best commerce-producer seems like a no-brainer. That will get you more techs faster, so you might even get another SGL...

A 100% Berserk Army can attack amphibiously. A mixed Army cannot.

 

[CKS]

Would Newton's be a good prebuild for ToE, or should I start with something older? I have Astronomy now (working on MilTrad), and two Civs already working on Copes.

There is no advantage to building ToE in any particular city, so I'd use a palace prebuild and time the start so that I accumulate 600 shields at the same time as learning Scientific Method. Newton's isn't a good prebuild for ToE because it is only 400 shields, and you might actually want to build it someplace.

If you are serious about domination, though, you are probably better off using the SGL for the military academy and investing the shields that you'd have spent on your wonders into cavalry, berserks, and armies. Don't forget that you can cash-rush armies. You don't need to research past Military Tradition for a military win. (A cavalry army with adequate artillery support can take down a TOW infantry in a metropolis, though you'll need to starve cities first if they have mech infantry in them.)

 

[Lanzelot]

or UniSuff, maybe, if you're warring

The Universal Sufferage is a pretty useless wonder: it makes one citizen per city, who is unhappy because of war weariness, content. 800 shields are not justified for that.
Compare it with Bach's Cathedral (600 shields), which makes two citizens content, and not only if there is war weariness, but all the time!

I usually only build Universal Sufferage in 20K games.

 

[vorlon_mi]

I love Bach's Cathedral, especially if my Continents map means I have few luxuries to hook up to my cities. If I can get it, it means I can keep the luxury slider down at 10% instead of 20 or 30 and crank out more beakers per turn. Once I get Astronomy, often I can trade for the luxuries on the other continent. But as Lanzelot says, Bach's pays those dividends in both war and peace, for the rest of the game.

 

[Theov]

Use him on the Observatory or Smiths.
Dont wait with it, because advantages snowball in this game.
Also. A Berserker Army on a (defended) ship is like fishing with dynamite.