Scientific Leaders - Unneccesary?

[TheNiceOne]

Originally posted by slothman
Not rushing great wonders does make sence when you put it that way but they should still be able rush small wonders. I don't think of small wonders as a wonder that every civ can build but as a building that you only need, or should have, 1 of. Especially the FP. Imagine trying to build that when you only have 1 shield to do it from. I don't even like building the temple when religios, i.e. 30 shields, in 95% corrupt cities. And that's the cheapest building!

Having to build a FP with one shield per turn is difficult, but I think its worse that pure luck decides whether you get it for free (by rushing it with a leader) or have to slowly build it. The FP is too important to be dependant on pure luck.

I once had a game where I just couldn't get leaders at all even though I eliminated several opponents. The result was that I had to build the FP the hard way in a totally corrupt place. What I did was to rush temple, marketplace and cathedral, to get WLTKD in the city, then rush corthouse, police station and factory to get 6 or so effective shields for a FP build time of 32 turns.
Now that FP was something I really felt I earned the right way.

Anyway, in C3C with the new specialists, it is quite easy to get a city to produce 10+ shields/turn even in a totally corrupt area. 10 spt means 20 turns to build a FP, and that's not too much.

 

[Capt Buttkick]

Not too much, but it's way later than I'd like to have my FP built

 

[Mr. Do]

Here's a complete rethink of the way SGL's and wonders should work: only let the SGL rush certain wonders, those wonders being the named ones, e.g., Sun Tzu, Leonardo, Copernicus etc. etc. And then just for some added flavour, have the wonders renamed to [SGL's][Wondername]. So you might end up getting variations like Pasteur's University or Copernicus' War Acedemy, or you might still end up with Darwin's Voyage. How hard could all that be?

 

[Frostyboy]

I got three Copernicuses in a row (even coexisting) before the industrial age, with the Germans. A bug there regarding the name.
I agree now that they have their earned positions since military conquest should'nt be superior to other ways of winning.

 

[stivomali]

In my current game I took the tech lead early in the middle ages. Leonardo's was the last GW that I missed, and I haven't been in danger of an AI beating me to one yet. I've gotten 3 SGLs and used each of them to boost scientific output.

Personally, I like the idea of removing the GW rush ability from SGLs. One thing I noticed is that multiple SGLs are allowed, but saving one for GW production precludes you from aquiring a MGL, which is somewhat balancing since you can't dominate both arenas.

I'm more concerned about AI using GLs to rush GWs, though I'm not sure their always smart enough to do so. I think having high producing Wonder generating cities is an important aspect to the game, one that I'm generally much better at than the AI.

 

[Mr. Do]

They noticed the SGL's only got produced with the first name so they're fixing that in the patch. Does using an SGL for science really make that much difference? I've not tried it myself yet...

 

[xIcemanx]

What GL's do do is make the insane warmonger and the patient builder approximately equal. In C3 the warmonger had a big advantage thanks to the MGL's, but now the SGL's make building good.

 

[ybbor]

well for the people who say tech should add to score (who i agree with), technialy it already is, future tech counts toward your score, but i still think that you should get 5-10 points for each tech you research, weather you're the first to it or not (possibly add 1 or 2 points for bieng the first?)

anyway, cna you get SGL's from future techs?

 

[stivomali]

Originally posted by Mr. Do
They noticed the SGL's only got produced with the first name so they're fixing that in the patch. Does using an SGL for science really make that much difference? I've not tried it myself yet...

In my case it was quite useful. Made the difference between 5 or 6 turns to the 4 turn minimum. Since I got 3 SGL as I mentioned in my previous post, I was soon ~6 techs ahead of my nearest rival. I was able to wipe out the two AIs on my continent with a tank rush just as they were producing their first few infantries.

 

[sealman]

I think that SGL should not be allowed to rush Military type wonders. It just does not make sense to me.

Conversly, MGL should be allowed to rush Military Wonders.

In regards to strategy, you should never have a plan to expect great leaders.

 

[kokoras]

What i don't like in the curent system is the real low probability of geting a SGL.Maybe there could be a S.W that when building it would provide a SGL every 100 turn or something like that.In that case they would not be able to rush a G.W but only to provide the increased scientific research(the other curent option).
G.W could be rushed by the MGL as it was in the past.(I am in favor of them to have this option)

 

[TerraHero]

IMHO, increase apearence rate of SGL and drop the rush wonder..now u can get more sience, wich should be a nice enough boost whern SGL apear at 10% or sumthing like that.

I dislike the pure randomness of the game...maybe add a SGL at curtain choke points..like Electricity. But i would prefer suggestion nr1..more apearence and no more Wonder rush.