Scientific Trait Usless in 1.17?

Shink

Chieftain
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
18
Location
Phoenix, Arizona
After being frustrated in my first three games of Regent by the AI Tech Trading, I changed my strategy entirely. Still playing on Regent, with eight civs on a random 2-continent standard size map, I took Japan and decided to screw knowledge.

I spent the entire beginning of the game building temples and barracks and settlers, with spearmen thrown in between settlers after the first two structures were built. I put my science and luxury rate down to 0% and built no libraries. On my continent I discovered there were only two civilizations - Babylon to the north and China (damn war-mongers) to the west. I bought all their techs and focused on making an army and expanding.

After minor border skirmishes, things settled down on my little continent. Then contact was made with the other continent that had Germany (on their own island), France, Greece, England, Iroquois, and Egypt. My continent was suddenly rushed into the middle ages, and I continued on with my plan - still all taxes and nothing else. I was able to defeat Babylon using this tactic, and go to the point where the only thing left to build in my cities were Libraries. And that's when the game turned - my Samurai won a battle, I hit a Golden Age, and I suddenly and rapidly had a tech-lead (one or two techs) at the beginning of the industrial age. Which I held until an incredibly long war with China allowed the others to catch up (and pass).

The Milatiristic trait was key - all of the leaders it generated from my war-mongering allowed me to build up all of the key wonders despite being slightly behind in the tech-race. The religious trait was nice in that it gave me low-cost temples/cathedrals, but I was Japan only for the Samurai.

The point being is this - is it the case that THE best trait in the game now is Militaristic? I'm positive this strategy would work equally as well on the higher difficulties - it's just winning the war based on sheer numbers.

A funny thing in my game - despite being military science equals with China and being the smaller nation, I was able to wipe them out with 159 samurai and 29 tanks (I lost my supply of oil and couldn't build tanks). It's amazing that if you throw enough samurai at a tank, it eventually dies, and with 159 invaders, it's difficult to stop them from reaching your capital. By the time the war was over, I was down to eight Samurai. However, I'm now such a large powerhouse (despite the weakest technologically) that three of the four remaining civilizations have declared war on me. I guess the really frown on the way I razed every chinese city that didn't have a Great Wonder in it.

Try this strategy - you might like it!
 
Don't know if you can discount the science trait through a single game, but it has been weakened by two factors in 1.17: scientific advances are cheaper, and the AI trades so much that any AI discovered advance is soon universal, and therefore cheaper AND easier for the human player to research.

Re: your sudden lack of friends after taking out the Chinese. My guess is that the other civs attacked you not for your razing antics, but because you had become relatively weak militarily. I have found that you can do just about whatever you like as long as you are the biggest badest civ on the planet. Short of Nukes that is, but they are so, so, tempting.
 
Scientific is still a quite useful trait. I am still amazed at how many people are having difficulty in even getting, let alone maintaining a tech lead on regent. I would suggest reading though some of the succession games in the stories and tales forum for advice. I have learned far more there than I have here, especially in the RBD and LK game series. In a few of those games I have played in, in 20 turns in the middle ages, I have gone from 4-5 techs behind to a tech lead that we never lost on regent. Even if you can't manage a lead, staying even with everyone so you enter the next age with a tech to trade away can give you a huge advantage. Monarch is pretty much the same, with proper infrastructure, no one should be able to touch you on tech. And never forget Scientifics other huge bonus, cheaper culture buildings. Libraries and Universities provide more culture than temples and cathedrals.

Perhaps it is just because of the style I have always played, in civ, MOO, MOM, RFTS, just about every game where you had to balance a scientific approach with a military approach, and I have always won through a economic/scientific means rather than an early military approach, but to me, the scientific attribute hasn't diminished in strength, in fact, it has become more important to get a tech lead because the AI now trades so much more.
 
At Regent and Monarch, the tech lead seems to seesaw back and forth at times. I keep a reserve of gold around for those times when the AI has some techs I want. That allows me to beeline for the important ones, usually for wonders or military uses. The AI still keeps obsolete units around too long, so even when they get things that would upgrade their units they don't do it very fast. Maybe a lack of gold.....;)
 
Even if a player does zero research (Pope strategy) the scientific trait is useful for the shield bonuses. A 40 shield library is the most cost effective culture bulding in the entire game! Three culture for 40 shields, vs. two culture and 30 shields for a Religious civ temple.

There is also the bonus of a free advance after each age. Is Scientific as strong as some of the other traits? Probably not, but it is far from useless, no matter what tech strategy is used, and no matter how Firaxis mangles AI tech trading.
 
The key to maintaining the tech lead is bankrupting your enemies with (your) tech for (their) cash-per-turn deals. The trick is to be sure to sell your techs to the biggest player first, since they pay the most! Sell next to the 2nd biggest, etc. on through all the players. If you sell to one, sell to all. Not selling to a minor tribe just leaves them open for exploitation from one of the people you did sell to. Instead of their cash (or whatever they have) going to you, it goes to one of your rivals.

If they can't pay, give it to them. You get props, and your enemies loose an oppertunity.

Cheers,
Shawn
 
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