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Scoring 56,360 in 5 minutes

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by cv431410, Mar 1, 2006.

  1. cv431410

    cv431410 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
    248
    Please allow me share with you one of my experiences, scoring 56360 in 5 minutes.

    Difficulty: Settler
    World Size: Dual
    Leader: Does not matter
    Strategy: Elimination Victory with Axeman

    Your building Order:
    First city: settler, worker, barrack, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, ...
    Second city: settler, worker, barrack, axeman, axeman, axeman, ...
    Third city: settler, worker, game over

    Your opponent building Order:
    First city: worker, archer, archer, settler, archer, archer, ...
    Second City: worker, ...

    Basically, you will produce Axeman first with technology and iron. Your opponent? He is a little bit behind, either in technology or iron.

    You will find that he has 5 archers in his capital, facing your entire force, six Axemen (on the second thought, leave one at home. I have turned Mr. Barbarian out; they do not help my score). Naturally, his capital falls and his second city has only two archers. Capture it and the game is over.

    This striking 56360 score, unfortunately, only produces a game score of 1997, which is below "low". How to get high game score is a topic of another day, for another person. For me, the two highest game scores are 11719 and 11502, both are domination victories at Deity level. The first one is one against one; and the second one is one against two. These are very painful experiences for me.
     
  2. DaveMcW

    DaveMcW Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    6,489
    Play it on Noble and you'll get 100,000. ;)
     
  3. ainwood

    ainwood Consultant. Administrator

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    30,083
    I would have thought that the leader choice would matter somewhat. A leader that starts with mining would be useful - if only to allow you to research bronze working a bit quicker.

    This strategy is dependent on you being able to hook-up iron or copper fairly quickly.
     
  4. Yzman

    Yzman Deity

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    Jul 18, 2002
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    2,768
    Location:
    Illinois, USA
    Why would you get more on noble? Noble gives less points than diety. Unless you mean you will win faster.
     
  5. Rem

    Rem Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2003
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    87
    The strategy posted was said to be done on settler, not deity ;)
     
  6. Dairuka

    Dairuka Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
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    558
    Location:
    BC, Canada Land
    Do it with the Incans on Monarch. It'll be faster and you'll get way more points.
     
  7. katank

    katank Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2006
    Messages:
    301
    Yes, I know this will be a lot of points. Duel diety with Incas is really darn easy.

    But what's the fun in that? It violates the spirit of the game in many senses. I could get a Sid victory in civ 3 only by using the editor and make an entire map of mountains. The AIs suicide next turn and I win. That's even quicker and produced an insane score but I didn't derive much satisfaction from it nor did I claim myself to be a Sid player.

    Score's just a number after all and playing on contrived settings doesn't make a whole lot of sense IMHO.
     
  8. Vonreuter

    Vonreuter Warlord

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    154
    The question that arises to me is:

    Will you have any fun doing this?

    I play for fun and it's fun to compete against my older scores. However, if I put a game like this on the score board, I don't think I'd lose the aspect of competing against myself.

    That said, I usually play Standard sized maps on Noble or Prince where I can "live" the game and still enjoy some challenge. I've never tried a Duel, and I don't think I'd enjoy it. I like exploring the world, settling places and finding new civilizations.
     
  9. jpowers

    jpowers Emperor

    Joined:
    May 7, 2002
    Messages:
    1,491
    Location:
    The Castle Aaaaaaaargh
    I've played a few times like this just to see the earliest possible victory I could get. I used the Quechua (sp?) civ so I wouldn't need any metals, and I had my worker build a road to the enemy's door. A nice stack of 6 has finished the game on normal speed by 2340BC.
     
  10. MetHimPikeHoses

    MetHimPikeHoses Unarmed Insurgent

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2005
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    229
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    Funny, I did the same thing this morning-- used exactly 6 quechas and walked a long road right to Bismarck's capitol. I finished at roughly 2300BC as well, and only scored 9,500ish. I could have gone faster if I would have chopped each of the Quechas.
     
  11. MENGW

    MENGW Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7
    Or, go to WorldBuilder, spontaniously generate 100 modern armor infront of every oponent's capital at first turn on diety, and win!
    Cheating? well the score would be just as worthy as a high score goten on settler.
     
  12. cv431410

    cv431410 Warlord

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2006
    Messages:
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    >>Or, go to WorldBuilder, spontaniously generate 100 modern armor infront of every oponent's capital at first turn on diety, and win!
    Cheating? well the score would be just as worthy as a high score goten on settler.
    <<

    Actually, the civ4 game does grade this strategy fairly, giving it a "Game Score" of 1997, which is very low. In this case, the "Game Score" is a better reflection of the game. If you wish, use min{Score, "Game Score"} = min{56,360, 1997} = 1997 as the final score. Will this make you feel better?

    A interesting topic is how to get high "Game Score"?
     
  13. cv431410

    cv431410 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Thanks to paul57's research, I am about to modify the original strategy posted. But let me present you paul57's research first:

    ====================== From paul57 ======================

    It appears difficulty level provides a bonus as follows: Diety is twice Noble and Diety is 5 times Settler.

    Generalizing and elaborating:

    It seems the way to maximize your score is as follows. Increase your population as quickly as possible toward the maximum the total available land area can support then end the game as soon as population growth rate falls off. This is because population is half the "raw" score and early finish gives maximum bonus. Increasing population requires controlling land area which contributes another 20% to the raw score. Increasing population and land area will require technologies which contribute another 20%. Number of wonders built contributes 10%. Difficulty level provides a bonus where Diety is twice Noble and Diety is 5 times Settler. However, the bonus for finishing early appears to be dominate.

    You might agree that the results posted in the Hall of Fame seem to support this because the highest scores are currently Conquests on standard maps at Marathon speed and Diety difficulty. Scores (even by the same players) seem to fall at lower difficulties and/or smaller map sizes. I think I will search the forums for an explanation as to how Lurifax acheived the current high score of 412,476!!

    --------------------------

    I have not yet found this information on the forums or in the Wiki's so I thought I would share it.

    After studying the relevant Python and XML files listed below (update 1.52) I conclude the following regarding score: "Game Score" and "Normalized Score"

    All scores are a sum of 4 components weighted as follows:
    50% based on population of all your cities
    20% based on land area within your cultural borders
    20% based on technology you have researched
    10% based on wonders you have built
    Each pre-weighted component is the ratio of what you did relative to the maximum that was possible in that game:

    Code:
    your population TO max population possible on that map
    land area within your borders TO the land area of that map
    technology you researched TO all technologies researched
    wonders you built TO all wonders builtThe so called "Game Score" is determined by 1 & 2 alone and nothing else other than being multiplied by 10,000. In other words, if you have maximum population, maximum land, researched all technologies and built every wonder then your Game Score will be 10,000.

    The so called "Normalized Score" is dependent on difficulty level and the turn the game was completed on. If the difficulty is NOBLE and you finished the game on the so called "Estimated End Turn" then your Normalized Score will be 10,000.

    The difficulty level alters the normalized score by 0.2 per level as follows:

    Code:
    Settler: score is 0.4 times what it would be at Noble
    Chieftain: score is 0.6 times what it would be at Noble
    Warlord: score is 0.8 times what it would be at Noble
    Noble: score is 1.0 times what it would be at Noble
    Prince: score is 1.2 times what it would be at Noble
    Monarch: score is 1.4 times what it would be at Noble
    Emperor: score is 1.6 times what it would be at Noble
    Immortal: score is 1.8 times what it would be at Noble
    Diety: score is 2.0 times what it would be at NobleThe turn you end the game on alters the normalized score in a complex way. The game "estimates" the turn that you "should" win. The game also has so called "Initial" values for each of population, land, techs & wonders.
    Let
    E be the estimated end turn.
    W be the turn you won on.
    R be the raw value (eg your population or techs researched) and
    M be the max value (eg max possible population or max techs) and
    I be the initial value (?eg initial population? or initial techs?).
    ---
    Recall the Game Score for each component, G(i) is R divided by M:
    G(i) = R / M, for example
    G(pop) = R(pop) / M(pop)
    If the Initial values of all 4 components are zero then the total normalized score, N, is multiplied by the ratio E divided by W:
    N = (E/W) * (R/M)
    N = (E/W) * [G(pop)+G(land)+G(tech)+G(wonder)]
    Note: in this case the turn you finish on has a "linear" effect on score

    The wonders component of the score is always effected linearly by the turn you finish on, although when I is not 0 it is more complex:
    N(wonder) = R / {I + [(W/E) * (M-I)]}
    The turn you finish on has an exponential effect on population, land, or tech if their corresponding initial values are not zero. Each component of the normalized score, N(i) is altered as follows:
    N(i) = R / (I * pow( M/I, W/E ) )
    obviously if W is equal to E then
    N(i) = R / (I * pow( M/I, E/E ) ) = R / (I * M/I) = R / M
    If W is twice E (ie it took twice as long to finish the game) then the score is reduced because I is less than M:
    N(i) = R / (I * pow( M/I, 2*E/E) ) = R / (I * M*M/(I*I)) = (I/M)*(R/M)
    If W is half E (ie game was finished in half the number of turns) then
    N(i) = R / (I * pow( M/I, 0.5*E/E) ) = R / (I * sqrt(M/I))

    -------------------------------

    In directory:

    c:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Assets/XML/

    file:
    GlobalDefines.xml
    the following parameter values are specified:

    Code:
    SCORE_POPULATION_FACTOR = 5000
    SCORE_LAND_FACTOR = 2000
    SCORE_WONDER_FACTOR = 2000
    SCORE_TECH_FACTOR = 1000
    SCORE_FREE_PERCENT = 0
    SCORE_VICTORY_PERCENT = 0
    SCORE_HANDICAP_PERCENT_OFFSET = -60
    SCORE_HANDICAP_PERCENT_PER = 20
    In directory:

    c:/Program Files/Firaxis Games/Sid Meier's Civilization 4/Assets/Python/

    in files:
    EntryPoints/CvGameInterface.py
    CvGameUtils.py
    CvUtil.py
    we find functions:
    gameUtils().calculateScore()
    CvUtil.getScoreComponent()

    Following is a "simplification" of those functions.

    The first function calculates the score as follows:

    Code:
    PopScore = getScore(Pop, InitPop, MaxPop, 5000, T, Final, Victory)
    LandScore = getScore(Land, InitLand, MaxLand, 2000, T, Final, Victory)
    TechScore = getScore(Tech, InitTech, MaxTech, 2000, T, Final, Victory)
    WondScore = getScore(Wond, InitWond, MaxWond, 1000, F, Final, Victory)
    return (PopScore + LandScore + WondScore + TechScore)where presumably the Init values are starting values (for example the game starts with some free techs) although they could be something else (perhaps the function is generalized for later than 4000 BC starts).


    The second function calculates each component of the score as follows:

    Code:
    getScore(RawScore, Initial, Max, Factor, Exponential, Final, Victory):

    if EstimateEndTurn == 0:
    return 0


    if Final and Victory:
    TurnRatio = GameTurn / EstimateEndTurn
    if Exponential and (Initial != 0):
    Ratio = Max / Initial
    Max = Initial * pow(Ratio, TurnRatio)
    else:
    Max = Initial + TurnRatio * (Max - Initial)

    Free = (SCORE_FREE_PERCENT * Max) / 100
    if (Free + Max) != 0:
    Score = (Factor * (RawScore + Free)) / (Free + Max)
    else:
    Score = Factor

    if Victory:
    Score = ((100 + SCORE_VICTORY_PERCENT) * Score) / 100

    if Final:
    X = HandicapType * SCORE_HANDICAP_PERCENT_PER
    Y = 100 + SCORE_HANDICAP_PERCENT_OFFSET + X
    Score = (Y * Score) / 100

    return(Score)
    This can be further simplified as follows:

    Code:
    getScore(RawScore, Initial, Max, Factor, Exponential, Final, Victory):


    if Final and Victory:
    TurnRatio = GameTurn / EstimateEndTurn
    if Exponential and (Initial != 0):
    R = Max / Initial
    Max = Initial * pow(R, TurnRatio)
    else:
    Max = Initial + TurnRatio * (Max - Initial)

    if Max != 0:
    Score = Factor * RawScore / Max
    else:
    Score = Factor

    if Final:
    Score = ((HandicapType * 20) + 40) * Score) / 100

    return(Score)
    --------------------------------

    Things that I have not yet verified or otherwise determined:
    what is included with wonders? world, national, projects, spaceship parts?
    is the score really unchanged at Noble difficulty for all game speeds? (what value is returned by function getHandicapType()?)
    how is the estimated end turn determined? what does it depend on? (what value is returned by function getEstimateEndTurn()?)
    what determines the "initial" values for population, land, techs & wonders? (what value is returned by functions getInitPopulation(), getInitLand(), getInitTech(), and getInitWonders()?)

    Comments regarding unverified and/or undetermined information:
    wonders have the least impact on score so knowing the contribution of national wonders, projects or spaceship parts wont help players increase their score by a significant amount.
    knowing the exact difficulty where the score is not changed wont help players improve their score.
    knowing how the estimated end turn is determined could potentialy help players increase their score (it would at least be interesting to know).
    the manner in which the score if altered depends on the "initial" values so it would be nice to know what those values are; if they are zero then finishing earlier has a linear effect otherwise exponential.
    The maximum tech is 300 (at least it is in my current game) but there are 86 techs and the sum of points needed to research every tech is 197,120. Perhaps it is based on number of techs weighted for era?
    The maximum number of wonders is 230 (at least in my current game) but there are 33 world wonders, 13 national wonders, 4 projects & 7 spaceship parts.
     
  14. cv431410

    cv431410 Warlord

    Joined:
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    Here is the modified strategy:

    Difficulty: Settler
    Speed: Quick
    World Size: Dual
    Leader: Has mining
    Requirement: copper or iron
    Strategy: Capture opponent's capital with Axeman, keep him alive in the second city until ...

    Your building Order:
    First city: settler, worker, barrack, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, axeman, ...
    Second city: settler, worker, barrack, axeman, axeman, axeman, ...
    Third city: settler, worker, ...

    Your opponent building Order:
    First city: worker, archer, archer, settler, archer, archer, ...
    Second City: worker, ...

    Basically, you will produce Axeman first with technology and iron. Your opponent? He is a little bit behind, either in technology or iron.

    (1) You will find that he has 5 archers in his capital, facing your six Axemen. A stack attack will capture the city, but wait ... You must let him set up his second city first.

    (2) His second city has only two archers. Kill one archer and kill every additional unit when they are available. He will have no worker and will be surrounded by your force at all times.

    (3) Develop the land to get maximum population, land, technology, and wonders.

    (4) Kill him when you have enough.

    Have "fun".
     
  15. Faerwon

    Faerwon Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Messages:
    13
    Location:
    Finland
    It's interesting to read about all these insane score tricks but I don't want to mess up my scoreboard with them.

    Furthest on "dice-loading" I've gone was to crank up the difficulty in Civ 3 a couple over what I usually play on, and then started on a high sea huge archipelago with all civs. Naturally I picked Carthago for those seafaring traits and the bombard-capable galley (was it also that regular galleys were attack 0?).

    On a related topic, I've noticed they removed contact trading from Civ 4 (which was crucial in the abovementioned game. Work as a techtrade middleman in the early game and withhold contacts as long as possible).
     

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