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[GS] Scoring Civilizations(GS)

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

    Joined:
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    Messages:
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    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Hungary:
    Black Army: 3
    Huszar: 3
    Pearl of the Danube: 16
    Thermal Bath: 5
    Raven King: 28

    Require a very different playstyle. My first attempt result in a T131 victory which is not as good as those of T1-Civs, however nobody here provides any suggestions.

    Synergy: Black Army and Huszar: 2
    Black Army and Raven King: 5
    Raven King and Black Army and Huszar: -1 for they are on different tech lines.

    Overall Score: 61

    BTW I really like the design that each Civ and map situation requires a different route to victory, As Russia and Hungary and England you play almost differently in any directions. If you are tired of archer/horseman rush every game and wish to play casually, Online speed is the right speed to go.

    As for Hungary, it really needs a lot of things. Exploration to find CSs, Science to upgrade Levied units, Culture for fast Foreign Ministry, Gold for the levy cost. You need to combine everything to get a Hungarian rush done, and when you make it it is powerful.

    Is it? I see CS building as much as 9 muskets and have stronger military than his nearby Civ, I see another CS not building any military and cannot levy until T120. The profit of Raven King really depends on the situation.

    I guess the key of playing Hungary shall be "flexible", changing your strategy based on situation from time to time may be the key of playing Hungary. Since as there is Raven King it is really easy to shift your military focus. However a T131 victory doesn't really support this idea. But there's nobody providing any useful suggestions.

    It seems that CS always build melee and ranged and anti-cav units, and never build any navy or cavalries or air units or support units.

    Thermal Bath is as strong as Colosseum, 2 prod and 2 amenity for all cities within 6 tiles. Maybe not good for efficient players but really sth. not bad for casual players like me.
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  2. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Mali:
    Sahel Merchants: 7
    Songs of the Jeli: -65, very fast pantheon for religious settlements, however the production penalty is more scary. I once think it is good, however I experienced a game when I was defeated by Sumerian War-Carts. They begin attacking like 5 turns after we meet. If I play another Civ I have enough time to build up walls, however Mali has penalty.

    Suguba: 45, half-cost commercial hubs with a purchase discount. Oh how good it is. Especially for you can use faith to purchase the market.
    Mandekalu: 6

    Synergy: Sahel Merchants and Songs of the Jeli: 12 Songs of the Jeli encourages you to settle on deserts to make best use for Sahel Merchants.
    Suguba and Sahel Merchants: 6, Suguba offers more trade routes for Sahel Merchants.
    Suguba and Songs of the Jeli: 18, You need to purchase if you have serious production penalty, and the discount well suits this.

    Overall Score: 29
     
    Attakuiu likes this.
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Location:
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    Macedon:
    Hellenistic Fusion: 85, it not only works when you capture a city, but is also useful when you build a district in your captured city. I tested and conquered a city state, when I finish building a district in that CS I got a eureka.
    To the world's End: 35, Also applies to building wonders in all of your captured cities.

    As Macedon you definitely wish to capture everything. Even cities without districts are really useful since you can build up districts yourself and still get Eureka/Inspiration.

    Hypaspist: 14
    Hetairoi: 17
    Basilikoi Paides: 18, if you have sth. like the -60% cost on purchasing CS and -50% cost for purchasing units, you may have a wonderful conversion rate of gold to science.

    Synergy: Hypaspist and Hetairoi: -10, you either focus on Hypaspist or you focus on Hetairoi
    Basilikoi Paides and Hypaspist/Hetairoi: 1
    Basilikoi Paides and Hellenistic Fusion: -5 Building districts that give you eureka/inspirations is better than building Basilikoi Paides

    Overall Score: 155
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2019
    acluewithout likes this.
  4. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    Jul 28, 2009
    Messages:
    424
    You know you can instant-friend Gilgamesh, right? This is extremely beneficial for Mali because the trade bonus is for international routes, so having a permanent friend is ideal and having that first meet be Gilgamesh was also ideal.
     
    Pietato likes this.
  5. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Maori:
    Mana: 40 Though not being able to harvest is a serious limit, the tree bonus and exploration bonus is also huge. Also in the most recent patch they nerfed harvesting so there's less negative parts for Maori.

    Kupe's Voyage: -1000 since you'll be stuck in Ocean if you cannot enter Ocean with Mana.

    Marae: -6 I'd like to say it is negative for normal Civs.

    Toa: 25, Great unit for it can chop and does not require iron. 41 vs 40 strength, maybe even better than Roman Legions.

    Synergy: Mana and Kupe's Voyage: 1070 Mana saves Kupe from being stuck in Ocean.
    Mana and Marae: 14
    Mana and Toa: -15, Mana seriously reduce the bonus of chopping.

    Overall Score: 128
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Location:
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    Mapuche:
    Swift Hawk: 0
    Toqui: 48, +10 is a very good bonus. Really good. You can watch others' era score by viewing the score screen, then you can predict or even control how your opponent will enter a golden age. When he is in golden age, then it turns to your chance.

    Example: Converting every enemy city to your religion gives 3 era points. (Maybe he has certain dedications and get 5, be careful.) So if he has a religion you try to declare war then convert your cities to his religion and he gets golden age. There are many other sources though.

    Yes you need to look carefully.
    Chemamull: 9
    Malon Rider: 9, it usually have 60 strength since it gains the +5 within 4 tiles of friendly territory including newly captured cities. Also the 1-move pillage is good.

    Synergy: Malon Rider and Toqui: 1

    Overall Score:67
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  7. Sostratus

    Sostratus Emperor

    Joined:
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    1,654
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Minnesota, USA
    Today I decided to learn to mod this game, and saw these same lines earlier today. I honestly got a great chuckle out of it.

    Anyways, I will say as strange as I find Lily’s threads, he does play very differently from a lot of people and some of the things he declares are quite interesting to think about, like harbors being the strongest district as he wrote in his England post.
     
    acluewithout and cvb like this.
  8. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Ottoman:
    Grand Vizier: 16, Serasker is really good. Don't know if Pasha works for foreign cities though. You can establish him in CS if the front line is too far-away from any of your own cities.
    However you cannot establish him in a city which you're at war with, making Grand Vizier less interesting.

    Great Turkish Bomber: 42

    Barbary Corsair: 6

    Janissary: 40

    Grand Bazaar: 4, it works for rare resources like oil, aluminum and uranium.:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye:

    Synergy: Grand Vizier and Great Turkish Bomber: 4

    Grand Vizier and Janissary: 4

    Great Turkish Bomber and Janissary: 4

    Barbary Corsair and Great Turkish Bomber and Janissary: -5, for they require different paths.


    Overall Score: 115
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2019
  9. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Everyone playes very differently, not only me. Usually I play random maps like the Spanish or Egytian or Hungary ones I posted on the forum, everyone can try them too. (although I see nobody finishing any of them...) Of course each of these maps requires a different way to play.
     
  10. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I do not disagree but I just feel demeaning those not as clever as him, or who makes mistakes is not in the spirit of this forum. I will simply report him in future because it is not my call to make. I encourage anyone else offended by his posts to report him also as this is the correct approach. Hopefully that will encourage him to be more positive and nurturing in his posts.
    Glad to discuss if the RNDY is the most powerful if you want to make another thread.
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  11. KayAU

    KayAU King

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    Messages:
    701
    Is that true? I always assumed the pillaging ability of the Longship was from the Thunderbolt ability.

    Even if it isn't, I would argue that this is a positive synergy, as the ability allows you to keep coastal pillaging after you upgrade your units. Compare this to the (still pretty great) Eagle Warrior, which loses its ability to capture builders when upgraded. This means you are incentivized to keep it around past its prime as a combat unit. If the Aztecs had an ability which granted the ability for all land melee units to capture builders, I would argue this to be a positive synergy which made the Eagle Warrior even better, as you would be free to upgrade them immediately with no ill effects.
     
  12. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Maybe we shall test that , using a Sea Dog to capture a Longship and see whether it can pillage or not.

    I'm just following the wikis on this. I'm happy to correct this if you do the test. Unlike some other guys, I'm always willing to correct my mistakes since every correction of a mistake refers to an improvement in skill.

    The reason why I give Longship and ThunderBolt negative synergy score is rather "Longship reduce the strength of Thunderbolt". Before we have Longships thunderbolt bonuses all melee navies, when we have Longships ThunderBolt becomes a little bit more useless, since now it(its allow pillage ability) only bonuses melee navies after Longships.

    Screen Shot 2019-10-28 at 6.15.08 PM.png
     
  13. lotrmith

    lotrmith Prince

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    That's only a fair (and weird) assessment if you give the Longship the extra 10 points to balance out, like the silly way you factored the Maori score.

    Moderator Action: Please stop characterizing the posts of others as "silly". Instead, use analysis to show why you think it was silly, then we all benefit by understanding what the thought process is. Thanks. leif
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 2, 2019
  14. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Persia:
    Fall of Babylon: 80, +2 movement is really strong and is good for everything. To unlock it all you need to do is to declare surprise war. Unlike other types of wars, surprise war is the easiest, most common and most useful type of war. No condition to fulfill and very great bonus.

    In GS emergency is fixed at certain number of turns, When it is about to be an emergency, you just declare surprise war on one Civ which is most likely to join the emergency. Therefore you do not suffer from lack of targets to declare surprise war.

    Satrapies: 14 Shall we make it to upgrade modern roads to railroads automatically?
    Immortal: -3 Worse than swordsman and archers.
    Pairideaza: 10, Very good improvement for it gives 2 appeal and can make full use of Earth Goddess.

    Synergy: Satrapies and Fall of Babylon: 0, +2 movement does not make advanced roads more useful. Yes advanced roads makes you to move even faster, but with the +2 movement even without advanced roads you move at some speed so the need of faster roads is reduced. Combine these effects yield a perfect zero.

    Overall Score: 81
     
  15. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Phoenician:
    Founder of Carthage: 12, I buy the bonus to government plaza. For "move capital", maybe it helps after Colonization.
    Bireme: 1, this cannot coastal raid, also not able to take CS since CS start with walls
    Mediterranean Colonies: 2, Move your capital to newly captured city by chopping "move capital" project? Seems a little too situational. The bonus movement for embarked settlers is good however as Phoenicia you're limited to shallow water before Cartography.
    Cothon: 14

    Synergy: Cothon and Bireme: 6, These 2 Uniques synergies really well since you have a very big chance to gain a Golden Age on Classical using these 2 uniques.

    Overall Score: 35
     
  16. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Poland:
    Lithuanian Union: 4, If you get a relic it is super-useful. However you're not Kumar.
    Golden Liberty: 4, Encampment and Forts are costly. Also some military policies are useful that even it is transferred to a wild card slot you still use a militaristic one.
    Winged Hussar: 10, Due to the knight nerf winged hussar becomes much more useful now. Especially with the -50% cost congress resolution.
    Sukiennice: 4, Comes too late although the bonus is good.

    Synergy: Lithuanian Union and Golden Liberty and Sukiennice: -5, They force you to focus on different types of districts, however if you focus on all these things, Holy Site, Encampment and Commercial Hubs, you already lose your game.

    Overall Score: 17
     
  17. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Rome:
    Trajan's Column: 50, The bonus start from T0, much earlier than other uniques.
    All roads lead to Rome: 10, it seems that this applies to captured cities?
    Legion: 25, Chopping Legion.
    Bath: 12, Cheap source of housing, amenity and industrial zone bonus.

    Synergy:0

    Overall Score: 97
     
  18. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Scotland:
    Bannockburn: 18, when active it is a combination of Persia and Australian UA, really strong, however you need to have someone declared war on a city-state Suzerain(Not sure of the situation when you only have some envoy but not Suzerain) by you. This is very difficult condition since CSs are taken down by AIs in only a few turns and you have to capture the time window.

    Not sure how to evaluate this. When active it is the best of the best, however you don't have a good chance to activate this.

    Scottish Enlightment: 7, You don't really have chance to make your cities estatic before you build the Stadium, Maracana and Ski Resorts. There're really not many sources of amenities. I usually try to control the happiness to -1 or -2. -2 may be the best for empire development. Maybe I can do 0 if I have some good sources, but making every city +1 is definitely too costly. (Maybe Cahokia is useful?)
    Maybe river Goddess may help? Or just control population to 4 or sth.? I don't know how to use it.

    Highlander:0

    Golf Course: 4, Amenity Source is really Appreciated, however comes a little bit late, and, if you don't go the religious way you usually don't research reformed church but exploration

    Synergy: Golf Course and Scottish Enlightment: 1

    Overall Score: 30
     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2019
  19. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Scythia:
    Killer of Cyrus: 24 Enhanced War Department at T0, really strong! But this doesn't work for siege.
    People of the Steppe: 38
    Saka Horse Archer:0
    Kurgan: 0

    Synergy: Saka Horse Archer and People of the Steppe: 6
    People of the Steppe and Killer of Cyrus: 4

    Overall Score: 72
     
  20. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Spain:
    Spain is a luxurious civ. The main idea of Spain is that, you pay everything, extra faith, religion, extra production, to get an extremely high combat strength of both land and sea combats at Medival/Renaissance.

    EI Escorial: 20, I buy the +4 strength bonus. Also the bonus on inquisitors are of some use.
    Treasure Fleet: 7, earlier fleets and amandas, powerful and costly, really a luxury.
    Conquistador: 28, Who can resist the power of the powerful Conquistadors?
    Mission: 2 As a religion-based Civ, Spain tends to go for reformed Church, however this time the mission comes at Exploration. This is annoying. Scottland and Spain UIs really shall swap their places on tech line.

    Synergy: Conquistador and EI Escorial: 2

    Overall Score:59
     

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