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Scoring Civilizations

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Lily_Lancer, May 17, 2018.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Just some personal opinion on scoring civilizations, since there're so many ranking threads here but only few provides a reasonable ranking.



    Full score:100(Just a scaler)
    start from 0 as a blank civ.

    Sumeria with Beard: 120
    Aztec: 101
    Australia: 81
    Sumeria :80
    Greek (Gorgo): 75
    Scythia:70
    Nubia:66
    Greek (Pericles): 63
    Indonesia:60
    Macedon:60
    Korea:59
    Rome:59
    Persia:59
    China: 57
    Mongol:50
    Mapuche:50
    India (Chandra): 46
    Germany: 46
    Arabia: 46
    Russia:45
    Brazil: 42
    England: 37
    Netherlands: 36
    France: 35
    Norway:33
    India (Ghandi): 32
    Cree: 31
    Scotland:31
    Zulu:31
    Japan:29
    America: 28
    Spain:15
    Poland:13
    Kongo:8
    Georgia: 7
    Khmer:6
    Egypt: -23

    avg. score=43.3
    median score=45.5


    Aztec:
    +1 attack for each luxury: +11
    +8 strength, +25 cost warrior: +5
    Initial Eagle Warrior instead of Normal Warrior: +9
    Can transform defeated units to workers: +40
    Workers can build districts: +35
    Unique Arena: +1

    Overall score:101/100

    Arabia:
    Automatic last prophet : +17
    Foreign transformed City grant +1 Science: +2
    -90% religious building cost for Arabic Religion: +4 (You need to unlock it(1 apostle), and build holy-site, and shrines and temples, convert to Arabic Religion... )
    +10% Science/Culture for Arabic Religious building: +2
    Mumluk requires no iron:+6
    Mumluk automatic heal: +10
    Madrassa early unlock: +1 (Not really always an early unlock due to Theology not being a favorable civic)
    Madrassa +1 Extra Science:+2
    Madrassa +Faith: +2 (In Vanilla it is rated a lot higher since in vanilla city-state science bonus count as Madrassa faith too, but in RF, no)

    Overall Score:46/100
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2018
    Arent11, liv and Morino1914 like this.
  2. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Location:
    Berkeley,CA
    Brazil:
    +1 Enterainment, half cost ED/water park: +7
    Can construct Carnival: +4
    20% GPP return: +6
    Rainforest +1 Appeal and adjcancy: +7
    Minas Geras early unlock:+5
    Minas Geras requires no resource: +2
    +10 Strength Battleship: +7
    Rainforest start: +4

    Overall Score: 42/100

    China:
    Worker +1 Charge:+25
    Can speed up early wonder: +19
    +10% Eureka/Inspiration: +7 (How careless I am )
    Great Wall: +3
    Crouching Tiger: +3

    Overall Score: 57/100
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2018
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Location:
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    Australia:
    +100% prod when liberation or being declared: +48
    Appeal adjcancy bonus: +12
    +2 Strength, +5/10 Strength Infantry: +4
    Outback Station: +5 (Unlock too late)
    Pasture provide culture bomb: +5
    +3 Housing for coastal city: +5
    starting bias (pasture): +3
    Overall Score:81/100

    Cree:
    +1 Trader and Trade Route after Pottery: +10
    Trader provide tile: +8
    Trade route yield bonus: +4 (since it can have 2 early trade routes instead of 1)
    Mekewap: +9
    Scout +10 Strength: +4
    Scout additional promotion: +2
    Scout extra cost: -6
    Alliance shard vision: 0

    Overall score:31/100
     
  4. Pietato

    Pietato Chieftain

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    You severely underestimate the Cree. So much so, that I have to wonder if you actually play the game. I mean, seriously...allied shared vision 0? Mekewap only 9? Totally clueless.
     
    drakula, XVeris and Zaarin like this.
  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Sumeria
    Warcart +85
    Ziggurat + 10
    Epic Quests +3
    Beard +2
    100/100

    England
    Royal Navy Dockyard +2
    Pax Britannia +7
    British Musuem +5
    Redcoat +4
    Firaxis will nerf England for some reason-100
    -86/100

    Rome
    Free Monuments +35
    Legion +5 strength +10
    Legions don't need Iron +20
    Legions can remove resources +20
    Legions are more expensive -2
    Bath +2
    Roads Lead to Rome +4
    89/100

    Korea
    Seowon +69
    Governor Bonus +4
    Hwacha +1
    Hill Bias +13
    87/100

    Japan
    Adjacency from all districts +8
    +Strength on Coast +1
    Half Price Holy Site,and Theater District +8
    Half Price Encampment +21

    38/100

    Norway
    +Melee Boat Production +14
    Enter seas before cartography +1
    15/100
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    America:
    P51-Mustang: 0
    Film Studio: 0 (It requires world era modern, which never happens)
    +1 Appeal for National Parked City: +1
    Rough Rider: +1
    +5 Combat on own Continent: +15
    Convert Diplo Cards to Wild Card: +11
    Score:28/100

    Netherlands:
    River Adjcancy bonus: +12
    Harbor Culture Bomb:+2 (Extra sea tiles don't worth a lot)
    Polder: +3
    Trade Route Loyalty/Culture Bonus: +2
    +5 Strength Frigate: +10
    Frigate +7 Strength when attacking districts: +7
    Score:36/100
     
  7. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Egypt:
    Chariot Archer :+13
    Unable to build Chariot: -7
    Unable to Upgrade Knight: -35
    Trade Route Bonus: +3
    District Production Bonus: +4
    Floodplain placement: +1
    Twice alliance point from trade: 0
    Sphinx:+2
    Starting Bias: -4
    Overall Score: -23/100

    England:
    Redcoat: +6
    Free land unit on settle/harbor on other continents: +18
    Half prod harbor +loyalty :+6
    Harbor +gold when built on other continents: +2
    Harbor +naval movement +3
    British Museum: +5
    Sea Dog: +1
    Starting Bias: -3

    Score:37/100
     
  8. acluewithout

    acluewithout Warlord

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    @Pietato No, I suspect Lily_Lancer knows what he’s talking about. Actually, he’d mentioned a rating system in another thread. I’m very glad he’s willing to expand on it.

    My only question on the Cree is this: if the scout is more expensive, why give it a -6. Wouldn’t you just not build it and give it a 0? I thought scouts weren’t all that useful for quick victories?

    Or do you sometimes build scouts for some reason - eg to Garrison in cities for loyalty?
     
  9. kryat

    kryat Chieftain

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    Could you expand a bit on your scoring system? The points seem arbitrary.
     
    679x, Karmah, XVeris and 4 others like this.
  10. Boyan_Sun

    Boyan_Sun Chieftain

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    After R&F, Aztec and Sumeria may be no longer Tier 0 in PvE, no matter DV or SV.

    Scouts are very, very useful in the fastest DV or CV, just for its original function: exploring. And in R&F, they can also give you more era points to enter classic golden age.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  11. Arent11

    Arent11 Chieftain

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    I don't exactly disagree, but the "tiers" are usually done because you often cannot exactly rate how strong an ability is. Especially because it is also dependent on map settings. So, if you use a point system, you would have to explain why you feel that +1 attack for each luxury should be valued as +11.
     
  12. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Yes, scouts are important in early wars in R & F due to the garrison loyalty issue.
     
  13. Equilin

    Equilin Chieftain

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    I'd be appreciated if you explains the scoring system in the first post (before actual scores) e.g. the limit in each category, unique breakdown. I don't mind overscoring because it's always a thing.
     
  14. gozpel

    gozpel Couch-potato (fortified)

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    Well, someone should make a REAL elimination thread about it and explain the scores more in depth. This is just willy-nilly?
     
  15. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Elimination threads are the ultimate form of “willy nilly” as there is no way to enforce strict rating criteria. And even when criteria are announced, every effort to rank civ’s or their uniques based on the stated criteria always comes down to the subjective judgment of those who bother to post in that thread. Lily is an experienced player, so getting insight into his thinking on the subject should be very informative, but some (most?) will be unconvinced and the debates will never end (which is a great thing for a discussion forum).
     
    Morino1914, tzu, Mr. Shadows and 4 others like this.
  16. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    This is correct. In those games you foresee the map and prepare a wonderful path for the scout. The map is also good enough for fastest victory, which means it has more than usual ruins and CSs, making your prepared path more valuable. In these games, right, scouts are much more useful than in normal games which you cannot foresee anything and prepare wonderful scouting paths, instead of being killed by barbarians or moving into territory with nothing left and ruin your potential friendship (if you do not have enough gold to send them delegation at the first sight and they instantly become hostile due to difficulty adjustment).
     
    acluewithout likes this.
  17. RealHuhn

    RealHuhn Chieftain

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    So basically your entire scoring system is based on pre-played optimal maps and fastest non-peaceful science victory? Because otherwise I feel like all these numbers don't make much sense.

    If you want to have some fun with Japan, I'd suggest you read the thread in the strategy & tips forum about "district discount mechanism". Because if played "correctly", pretty much all districts are 50% cheaper with Japan.
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018
  18. Rosty K

    Rosty K Chieftain

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    Uh? Get all the coastal goody huts + 9000 :D
     
  19. Phoenix1595

    Phoenix1595 Lord of the Two Lands

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    I think some readers just want to know Lily’s rationale for his scoring, not that he arbitrarily scored civs based on personal preferences. Those of us familar with Lily know he plays the game in a unique way, so it is helpful for us to understand his scoring rationale.

    And yes, I know I will disagree immensely with Lily, but that is because I play the game much differently. Nevertheless, I enjoy reading Lily’s input. We can all learn from each other!
     
    SammyKhalifa and CPWimmer like this.
  20. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Originally, I was going to give Gilgamesh's beard +9000 but I tried to be serious.

    Oh, I guess that makes it another +12 (Sorry, I'm just making stuff up now). But some may already disagree with the value given to the encampment already. It's the bulk of the bonus due to ease of great generals.

    But if we go by this system, isn't anything > 0 a good thing if 0 is supposed to be neutral? It's a better sense to grade on a curve?

    I did this recently though , but it may even be more arbitrary as I did it in a few minutes: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1GlhtRB4YLM-0TnDyCrr1sYbSx0dKQmY9RJHy0FxWQXw/edit?usp=sharing
     
    Last edited: May 18, 2018

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