Scoring Question

Kev

Hired Goon
Joined
Feb 23, 2001
Messages
1,895
Location
Ringwood, NJ USA
Forgive my question if it is assumed to be common knowledge, but I have a question regarding citizens and how they affect your final score. I realize that a happy citizen is worth 2 points, a content citizen is worth 1 point, and an angry citizen is worth nothing. My question deals with the "overrun" citizens if you will - the ones that appear as entertainers (or science or tax guys) when all of your tiles are being worked already. How are they scored? The way I'm thinking, it could make a big difference as to how I play the very latest part of a game for score. Here's why:

1. If overruns count as points - perhaps as a content citizen.

If this is the case, consider this scenario: You have 3 or 4 cities nearby, but not overlapping each other. They have reached their maximum size in that all surrounding land is farmland and with all the food used they will not grow. Would it not be possible, during the final 10 or so turns, to build a new city right in the middle of these cities. In theory, all of the tiles would be white and unusable as they are in use by the neighbors, but it would be possible to go to those larger cities and "open up" say 4 or 5 tiles per city. Granted, there would be a food shortage in those cities, but with the Pyramids it would take several years before any population would be lost (or they could use food caravans). In the mean time, your new city would be able to grow very quickly with all of the land around it developed. Quick buy a supermarket, an aqueduct, a sewer system, a harbor if needed along with whatever happiness items you need and this could add a large batch of happy people quickly for a nice score boost. Even quicker once its growing along with "we love the president days".

2. The "overrun" citizens do not give you any points.

If this is the case, then why would I spend SO much time making farmland and irrigating away trees to max my city sizes. If I'm going for points it should be irrigate until enough citizens are created to work every available square and then move on to make a new city or work the land around a city that does not have a worker for every square. I know that the "overruns" can help with happiness or with science and taxes in an effort to boost the "future tech" point total, but I think we'd all agree that population is the key factor in scoring.

Also in this case, the strategy I mentioned above is particularly viable. Even if some of the "overruns" die from starvation it would not impact the score.

Just a few thoughts - I'd love to hear what the rest of you think.
 
Kev,

They -- scientists, entertainers, and the tax men -- counts as one point a piece. (In Civ 3, maybe they should adjust it such that scientists count as 2, entertainers as 1, and the tax men as -1!)

As for option 1, seems almost to much trouble for the points.
 
Option 1 is valid. Option 2 is not.

Your Option 1 ruse is actually a common ploy! When you have a big scoring game you may still have a bunch of engineers around and one of the things you can do with them is very much as describe, using the food stored in the granary to last the turns you need till your spaceship arrives. It's never too much trouble for the extra points! Your problem instead becomes making sure you can use up the 255 city maximum properly.

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"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage" - Anais Nin
 
Please forgive.

My game play in Civ has not come from any "Advanced Book" nor any strategy book whatsoever. In fact, I lost the manual that came with the game about 2 or 3 years ago.

After a long respite from playing, I've started again. While playing Baldur's Gate I and II, I discovered that there was a forum board on the net, and when I started Civ2 again I searched for one as well. I just discovered this board very recently and I've enjoyed it quite bit. I never knew about so many different strategies and that even multi-player games were being played.

Again, I apologize if strategies I think would be considered new (I searched the forum and could not find it mentioned), are actually elementary. I'm just looking for some good end-game thoughts as I am abut 100 points below the Deity high score (listed in the HOF at least) on a random map and I would like to score higher.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
 
Nothing to forgive Kev. It was just a confirmation that you're on the right tracks!

Glad you're doing so well at your Deity game. If you beat the record, send it in!

Tell me a little about that game. You say it's on a random map (Good!), but is it medium (x=50) or large (x=75)? Is it continental or archipelago? How many cities do you have at the moment? How many free city sites are there. (You can get 255 cities max.) What's the date? (You can get 255 future techs for 1275 points = 153%) You'll want a maxed out spaceship for 400 points...

There's lots of ideas. You probably know most of them. But between us we might be able to come up with something to tip the balance.

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Wyrd oft nereð unfægne eorl þonne his ellen deah
Wyrd often saves an undoomed hero as long as his courage is good
- Beowulf 572-3
 
Thanks stormerne for the help and your earlier reply as well.

The game is a random map that I set as large. I have (guessing) about 235-245 cities and right now the year is 2005. It must be Civ2 classic as it was given to me as a gift about 5 years ago or so. I am not sure the difference with archipelago or continental - I just play what the game gives me. I have a ton of islands where I have 1, 2, or 3 cities only, but I am not sure as to the actual setting. Is there a default - if so that's what it is.

As to free cities - I can only assume that you mean from huts? Is there a way to start with free stuff? In any case, I'd say I picked up 2-3 cities in total from huts.

I have the world down to my Civ and one pet city of the Romans. The Romans spawned at some point after the Russians were dispatched early in the game, so they are no threat in technology or anything like that. I also have all of the Wonders built.

I also have a fully-loaded space ship ready to launch.

My world is very full, and this includes several arctic and antarctic cities. I'm just trying to take the score over the top because I just get that way when I get an idea in my head. Not too much room available, and this is what lead me to thinking about plunking down a few right in the middle of larger cities.

I've been in a Democracy for a while now, and I've been getting future techs every 1-2 turns depending. However, I'll likely only end up with about 60-70 or so for an extra 300-350 points. I've kept pollution in check and I had barbarians set to "raging hordes".

That's about it. The score now is about 10,360 or so NOT including the space ship. I have the luxuries at 50-60% and I'll put it to 90 or 100% about 2016 or so (thanks for the tip civfanatics).

Just so you know, I have never even used the cheat mode in my life. I never knew one could use it and then go back to a saved game - I always thought it would be on the game regardless so I forever ignored it. With huts, the ONLY time I reloaded was my first one. It was, of course, barbarians and they killed settler #2 and started toward my poorly defended newly-made capital. I hope that my game is not thought the lesser for it - those barbarians got me back with some huts later on anyway.

Please let me know if any of you have suggestions. I appreciate it.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
 
Wow. You're doing well! But you haven't got a lot of time to act. (And you'll already have the best REAL game there - personally I don't consider Earth map games as real.)

Your original idea about interspersing new cities was the best. The point is that you'll get more points by new city growth (all 2 point happy people) than you'll lose with gradually decay from a full granary (and they'll be 1 point entertainers). But do choose sites between cities will full granaries!

By free city sites, I simply meant places to build anew. If you really are already too crowded then use the poles more thoroughly. A tranport with 8 engineers will give you 4 cities on ice and a potential and 72 more points (4 x 9 x 2) if you grow at 100% lux. See my polar strategies topic for details.

What ever you do you must use your city quota! And quickly. But don't guess - count! Hit F1 and count the full screens at 12 cities a screen. If you have 10 - 20 cities left to go that's potentially 560 points (20 x 14 x 2). Plus 400 for your spaceship (assuming 4 habitation modules) that tops you over into 1st place. But realistically can you do that? 11130-10360 = 770 points - 400 for the ship = 370 to make up. At just 10 extra cities you can't do that in time. With 20 you can - just! If you're limited to size 8 (16 points max) you'd need 24 cities.

Your other problem is choosing new city sites where there's good trade because without that you won't get everyone happy. This is one good thing about polar cities but that won't give you enough points.

You might need to do this several ways. Some on the poles (though you can't grow these past size 9 unless you land on tundra), some interspersed, and some on new ground.

Check the Intelligence of your pet civ each turn to make sure you don't lose your peace bonus (100 points). Keep 'em sweet with an occasional gift if you have to.

What are your biggest city sizes? Are they all double-irrigated? Can you squeeze more out of them?

Consider using food convoys to keep the new little ones growing.

It's going to be a close run thing. I suggest you plan it very carefully before you play on. Draw up a time table year by year. Count the squares to each new city site. And make sure you've got enough rush build funds.

Let us all know how you get on.
Good luck!

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"Success is dangerous. One begins to copy oneself,
and to copy oneself is more dangerous than to copy others"
- Pablo Picasso
 
Great advice, and thanks again. I do have some newly created cities that have some room to grow, so that should add to the final as well.

I have a bunch of engineers still double irriagating some taking down trees and the like to irrigate the land underneath as well. I just kinda got caught up and now I realize that I have to max my city quantity or I won't get there. I think as I disband engineers and build new cities it should also help as it adds two food back to the supporting city as well.

My pet civ is worshipful toward me and I have the 100 points in hand. Whenever he sent something out (very rare), I bribed it to my side and then disbanded it. Now he's building a spaceship structural unit at 1 shield per turn so that will keep him busy until the end of the game.

My cash is OK, and I am supplementing with uranium freight. I now have about 25 or 30 cities that suppy it and I think just about all of my cities demand it as well. Funny that some supply AND demand it, but if I support it from my science city and airlift it to another on a different continent, then I've been able to get over 2000 per trade. This is helping to buy the happiness improvements in the cities that need them, and will help to speed build things like harbors and supermarkets in brand new cities.

I'll finish the game this weekend and I'll send it in. I think there are directions to do this on the main part of this site if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks again for the help, and I'd be more than willing to read what anyone else might have to say as well.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
 
I've played games where I turned the whole world, essentailly, to farmland as well as both poles.

One other little trick is to build air bases on top of your mines. This gives an extra food for each of those squares.
 
You know, I never knew about that either (the airbases thing) before I got to this forum.

From what I've read here, that's possibly considered cheating (or at least a bit cheesy). I've never done this, but is this something considered OK?

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock
 
I thought using airbases was considered cheating.

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There are some who call me...Tim
 
Well, I finally finished. I'd like to thank you all for the help on end game strategies.

I've submitted the game to the HOF via the directions on the site. The good news is that my score was 11,530 or so with a 1498%. Again, this was a random map on deity level.

Thanks again to everyone who gave me suggestions!

Oh, and I did not use the airbase technique.

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Diplomacy - the art of
saying "Good Doggie"
until you can find a rock

[This message has been edited by Kev (edited March 03, 2001).]
 
WELL DONE!
king.gif

goodwork.gif


I'm looking forward to seeing it in the HOF.
Glad to have been of some little help.

 
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