Scotland as a Nation? - Your Opinion.

[CurtSibling]

Scotland is that funny little nation to the north that likes nothing more than blaming the English for all their problems.

Mostly because that is who caused them!

(the required response)

 

[CurtSibling]

Imagine all the chaos and confusion...

In your mindset?
We don't have to - It is on display in every post you make!

PS
(joke)

 

[philippe]

I would like to see Scotland independant.
Why did the british bother anyway with them?
Or the famiuos qoute in trainspotting:
We Scottish are the dirt of the dirt.
The English are just expletive deleted ,we ve been expletive deletedcolonised by expletive deleted

Moderator Action: Please refrain from posting vulgarities, even if they are quote.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Hazzard]

The United Kingdom was created for and by the English - - - it was unavoidable. Because of this, the nations of Wales and Scotland will be independent at some point in their history. The people of these nations have separate identities and each them would prefer one of their own countrymen as king. The UK will dissolve in time and rightfully so. The people of Scotland, however, will never prosper independently and will always live in the shadow of hated England. I feel, in the end, the wild card in the deck, Northern Ireland, will prove more tricky. They are Irish but British - - - they cannot return to be forever persecuted by their Catholic brothers but cannot stand-alone either. Of them all, I would beg to be English but also appreciate being Scottish. As a Welsh, I would struggle with my identity but remember we once lived independently. But as a Northern Islander, I would cry into my pillow each night and beg God to explain his sick sense of humor.

 

[Pangur Bán]

I must be really daft.

As I recall, the United Kingdom was formed when a Scottish king took the English throne, and not the other way around. Yes, I understand that the capital of the U.K. is London and not Edinburgh, but really, the formation of the Union strikes me as fairly peaceful and equitable and did not involve any kind of military invasion. What exactly are the Scots clamoring for independence from? Not a foreign conquerer, certainly. From their own bloody country, the way I see it.

You recall incorrectly, the United Kingdom was formed after the Treaty of Union (1707) which led to the formal annexation of Scotland.

The so-called "Union of the Crowns" wasn't a union, but merely a Dual Monarchy, simialr to the one England had with the Netherlands and Hannover, or that Germany had with Spain (Habsburgs).

I must be really daft.

Of course Scotland has a separate cultural identity from England. Alabama has a separate cultural identity from Massachusetts. What's that got to do with anything? They're still part of the same nation, the same union formed by the political joining of separate peoples. If the United Kingdom wishes to terminate the union and vote itself out of existence, I suppose that's one thing. But I've always viewed this Scottish nationalist 'free us from the chains of England' thing as a bit chauvinistic and more than a little frightening.

They are not part of the same nation, that's the whole point!

 

[Hazzard]

"Alabama has a separate cultural identity from Massachusetts"

The Euros do not understand Federalism - - the two cannot be compared. Even in Texas, we know we are Americans. It is not this way in Europe - - they hate each other as separate nationals.

 

[CurtSibling]

"Alabama has a separate cultural identity from Massachusetts"

The Euros do not understand Federalism - - the two cannot be compared. Even in Texas, we know we are Americans. It is not this way in Europe - - they hate each other as separate nationals.

Several dozen centuries of living together and you Americans will be at each other's jugulars too, let me tell you!

Animosity with European nations has much to do with culture and history - The USA is young still.

 

[Pangur Bán]

"Alabama has a separate cultural identity from Massachusetts"

The Euros do not understand Federalism - - the two cannot be compared. Even in Texas, we know we are Americans. It is not this way in Europe - - they hate each other as separate nationals.

I hate no other European nation, and I know few people back home who do.

And, BTW, the UK is not a Federal state

 

[the mormegil]

"Alabama has a separate cultural identity from Massachusetts"

The Euros do not understand Federalism - - the two cannot be compared. Even in Texas, we know we are Americans. It is not this way in Europe - - they hate each other as separate nationals.

We do!?

 

[Hazzard]

“Mostly because that is who caused them!”

This is true - - -

“Several dozen centuries of living together and you Americans will be at each other's jugulars too, let me tell you!”

It’s a little different, Curt - - - we are Americans. As time goes on, we will only grow more powerful. The peoples of Europe are English, Scottish, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, Swedish, etc - - - Federalism will never work. Also, speaking the same language REALLY helps.

“I hate no other European nation, and I know few people back home who do.”

I know, I know - - you all trust the Germans. Those who know better are old and scorned - - -

“And, BTW, the UK is not a Federal state”

I and they know this - - - -

“We do!?”

Yes, you do - - you may not know it but your leaders do.

 

[the mormegil]

They don't hate each other, it's just politics.

 

[CurtSibling]

“Mostly because that is who caused them!”

This is true - - -

Actually, it's a running joke with Scots and English.
Perhaps you have more to learn about us than you care to admit..?

“Several dozen centuries of living together and you Americans will be at each other's jugulars too, let me tell you!”

It’s a little different, Curt - - - we are Americans. As time goes on, we will only grow more powerful. The peoples of Europe are English, Scottish, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, Polish, Swedish, etc - - - Federalism will never work. Also, speaking the same language REALLY helps.

Actually, US power will decrease with the passing years - no empire can stand the sands of time.

And most American states are really just nations, held together by a common constitution and language.
But this situation could well change in time - Never assume anything.
Growing cultural groups, social issues and changing attitudes may erode what no enemy military ever could.

“I hate no other European nation, and I know few people back home who do.”

I know, I know - - you all trust the Germans. Those who know better are old and scorned - - -

I trust today's Germans more than I would trust Mr Bush;
and my town got bombed by the Luftwaffe.

“And, BTW, the UK is not a Federal state”

I and they know this - - - -

“We do!?”

Yes, you do - - you may not know it but your leaders do.

Such razor-sharp perception.

You remind me of a poster I was fond of many ages past.
He also called himself 'hyperpower' - I wonder!

 

[Hazzard]

They don't hate each other, it's just politics.

This may be true to a point....but only a small point. In the end, it's a good thing the US Army will never allow this theory to be tested.

 

[Hazzard]

"Actually, it's a running joke with Scots and English. Perhaps you have more to learn about us than you care to admit..?"

No, not really. And I'm aware that most of the running in this joke was done by the Scottish.

"Actually, US power will decrease with the passing years - no empire can stand the sands of time."

But unlike most Empires, we will not accept second chair. It amazes me that you forget how the dissolution of Rome affected Europe. Do you expect bright, sunny skies the day after with electricity to play Civ III?


"And most American states are really just nations, held together by a common constitution and language."

No, most of the states are not nations - - only a few. We are a collection of Federal states which I know is lost in the translation once it reaches Europe.


"But this situation could well change in time - Never assume anything."

Touché'

"Growing cultural groups, social issues and changing attitudes may erode what no enemy military ever could."

You are correct in respect to the military, but the rest is wishful thinking. Again, you do not understand Federalism.


"I trust today's Germans more than I would trust Mr Bush;
and my town got bombed by the Luftwaffe."

The Bush Army really helps when it comes to trusting those Germans!

"Such razor-sharp perception."

I know, I know - - -

"You remind me of a poster I was fond of many ages past.
He also called himself 'hyperpower' - I wonder!"

He is the true King privately - - -

 

[Mescalhead]

I think that Scots are significantly distinct enough in culture, tradition, and ethnic derivation to be considered a seperate nation. Two nations that share the same government is not one nation in my opinion.

 

[CurtSibling]

No, not really. And I'm aware that most of the running in this joke was done by the Scottish.

Do I detect a slight hint of depreciative rancour?

But unlike most Empires, we will not accept second chair. It amazes me that you forget how the dissolution of Rome affected Europe. Do you expect bright, sunny skies the day after with electricity to play Civ III?

Be glad if you even get a chair.

Europe will be just fine, we will have our new pals the Chinese and Russians to play with.

The USA can have the Arabs.

No, most of the states are not nations - - only a few. We are a collection of Federal states which I know is lost in the translation once it reaches Europe.

Time will tell.

Touché'

You said something in French - Won't you get arrested for that?

You are correct in respect to the military, but the rest is wishful thinking. Again, you do not understand Federalism.

No wishful thinking.
I am a big fan of freedom, etc.
But you must accept that today's tourist attraction was yesterday's hub of empire...Athens, Rome, Madrid...See?

The Bush Army really helps when it comes to trusting those Germans!

I really fear my NATO allies, sure -

I know, I know - - -

I hate to break it to you, but it was sarcasm.

He is the true King privately - - -

 

[Hazzard]

Oh, Curt, I do give you an "E" for effort....sigh

"Do I detect a slight hint of depreciative rancour?"

No, just a slight case of the truth. The Scots lick the boots of the English - now you may call that "depreciative rancour"

"Be glad if you even get a chair."

We own the factory that makes the chairs - - that makes us "glad" I assure you - -

"Europe will be just fine, we will have our new pals the Chinese and Russians to play with."

Now that’s the Europe I know and hate! Hmmmm...I wonder now if Curt would prefer Europe to be dominated by his new friends? Because God knows they can't dominate themselves - - -

"The USA can have the Arabs."

How kind of you after you tried so hard yourselves - - -

"Time will tell."

Yes it will - - as with Europe. Brush up on your Roman history, buddy - - -

"You said something in French - Won't you get arrested for that?"

No, I don't try to wear a headscarf to a French public school - - now that's freedom!

“I am a big fan of freedom, etc."

A Scot knows nothing of freedom - - and your "big fan" stance reeks of privation.

"But you must accept that today's tourist attraction was yesterday's hub of empire...Athens, Rome, Madrid...See?"

I guess you missed the lesson on the fall of Rome - - as such an anti-Christian, are you blind that for better-or-worse, the Church saved your continent? Rome was sorely missed, sir, and your crippled history reflects that.

"I really fear my NATO allies, sure - "

You mean the NATO allies that the Americans forced you to accept? Or did you make peace on your own? No….now that makes me laugh out loud!

 

[CurtSibling]

Oh, Curt, I do give you an "E" for effort....sigh

No drugs please!

No, just a slight case of the truth. The Scots lick the boots of the English - now you may call that "depreciative rancour"

Yes, we all lick, lick all day! Licking like jingo!

Your return is most welcome, Hyperpower!

You make CFC OT worthwhile!

We own the factory that makes the chairs - - that makes us "glad" I assure you - -

Still, the factory may privatise one day!

Now that’s the Europe I know and hate!

And we always win, because we have so many willing helpers!

Hmmmm...I wonder now if Curt would prefer Europe to be dominated by his new friends? Because God knows they can't dominate themselves - - -

Did I mention god does not exist?

How kind of you after you tried so hard yourselves - - -

Gloat when you have achieved something out there.

Yes it will - - as with Europe. Brush up on your Roman history, buddy - - -

Globally, things were a tad different in 500AD...

No, I don't try to wear a headscarf to a French public school - - now that's freedom!

Or a crucifix!

A Scot knows nothing of freedom - - and your "big fan" stance reeks of privation.

Nope, that reek is just the evil Euro-haggis!

I guess you missed the lesson on the fall of Rome - - as such an anti-Christian, are you blind that for better-or-worse, the Church saved your continent? Rome was sorely missed, sir, and your crippled history reflects that.

I am sure years of scientific repression and dark ages foolishness from an imported religion from the ME really helped us all.

And you forget, without we nasty Euros, your vaunted US 'hyperpower' would still be a giant wildlife park.

Perhaps you had better pick up a history book!

You mean the NATO allies that the Americans forced you to accept? Or did you make peace on your own? No….now that makes me laugh out loud!

So, the UK was forced into NATO?
I missed that part at the Potsdam summit!

PS
Europe rules!

 

[Desmond Hawkins]

Is Hazzard suggesting the Germans are going to fly through the Ardennes again? Poor delusional soul. America is in a worse position due to its lack of a good education system. It's power is mainly formed from economic momentum, but once that momentum slows down relative to the rest of the world, there will not be as large a base to build on, and at that point suddenly the Europeans and Chinese won't seem so weak.

 

[CurtSibling]

I should mention that my 'Europe rules' line is a private joke.

Hazzard knows what I mean -