Scout or warrior for Inca's first build?

fallout3dc

Warlord
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Jun 29, 2014
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I've seriously always wondered about this. If warriors function as scouts essentially, but cost more hammers, which would be worth it?
 
I prefer making a scout. It's cheaper to build and has better movement if you get to a flat area with jungle/forest. I also don't like to have warriors upgraded to spearmen. I know most people doesn't rate the slinger UU the Inca has but I still rate it over the spearman. So an Incan warrior would be more durable when the barbs turn up, but the retreat promotion the slinger has can compensate a bit for that, if you get to upgrade your scout through a ruin.

And if you play a big map I really prefer the promotions the scout can pick up with extra vision.
 
In the beginning you want to find ruins as quick as possible. They accelerate your culture, get you early faith for an easy pantheon, force-grow your new city, upgrade your units. Also you want to find all the AI as early as possible before they close off areas as you can't get open borders till civil service. You want to find as many trading partners as possible. Scouts are better for all of these things due to them ignoring terrain movement cost. You'll explore at least 30% faster I've found and find it easier to route around barbs (which you don't want to fight while scouting) having to stop and heal for 5 turns will probably lose you a ruin if not 2.
 
In the beginning you want to find ruins as quick as possible. They accelerate your culture, get you early faith for an easy pantheon, force-grow your new city, upgrade your units. Also you want to find all the AI as early as possible before they close off areas as you can't get open borders till civil service. You want to find as many trading partners as possible. Scouts are better for all of these things due to them ignoring terrain movement cost. You'll explore at least 30% faster I've found and find it easier to route around barbs (which you don't want to fight while scouting) having to stop and heal for 5 turns will probably lose you a ruin if not 2.

Inca's warriors do all of that as well, but it costs 56 hammers instead of 40. That seems to be the only tradeoff of going warrior over scout as Inca.
 
they do for hills, but I'm pretty sure they don't ignore terrain cost of forests/jungles so scouts are still better for scouting. You basically start with all units having the Kilimanjaro upgrade which is nice, but still slow and doesn't help you much in a jungle.
 
Inca's warriors do all of that as well, but it costs 56 hammers instead of 40. That seems to be the only tradeoff of going warrior over scout as Inca.

No the second tradeoff is movement lengths. A scout can usually go 1 - 3 tiles in 1 turn, as oppose to a Warriors 1 - 2 tiles. So you figure running around a continent, that extra potential tile can definitely add up, and be the difference between catching a few ruins before your opponents do.
 
^^It depends upon the map. If it's small continents or something, a scout is a waste.

While *many* agree the best first build is scout, some do not agree with that assessment.

I don't think that a player who wants to build a monumen first is necessarliy a "new player."
 
Inca's warriors do all of that as well, but it costs 56 hammers instead of 40. That seems to be the only tradeoff of going warrior over scout as Inca.

If every single tile in a 100 tile radius around your cap is hills, then I'd agree. Once you hit a forest with few hills, your warrior is just like every other warrior. Go scout first young blood.
 
I don't wait for tradition to build me the free monument every time. reason being: extra potential. The earlier you get into tradition and get to the growth tenet the faster you get off the ground. If I get a free culture ruin and open tradition at turn 5 then I find building a monument after my scout takes almost as long as waiting for the 2nd policy point to become available as 30/4 = 7.5 turns. Monument is usually 7 turns as well so I don't build monument and usually whip out a 2nd scout right away. However, if I don't find a culture ruin in about 8 turns or so I definitely build a monument. Reason being that it's not worth it to wait 25 turns to open tradition--that's a lot of wasted time I'm not getting that +3 culture. It's better to pay 1 gpt and build that monument. It's usually just a few turns anyway. Then later you get a free ampitheater which is far more expensive and automatically have a slot for the first writer.
 
Scouts are great, esp on a hilly map as they get the Incan movement bonus too. They whizz around discovering things much quicker.

I used to build only one scout but now prefer two regardless of civ.
 
building monuments with tradition is just a waste of early hammers when you go tradition. Scouting is way more important, so unless you play on something like archipelago or small islands, going 2x Scouts first is never a bad choise. They lineup nicely with Pottery timing too, as it takes 10 turns, and 2 scouts - 5 each (if you settle properly).
 
Tradition? Double scout to snag those ruins and get quick map awareness. The warrior will take longer to field. The ruins might be snatched up by the time he gets to them.
 
^but with 2 scouts, you are much more likely to get that culture ruin.

It's situation specific: this doesn't always work out and sometimes comes back to bite you. If you know what you selected for the map and can count on it being a large map with lots of space for ruins then obviously, whip out a 2nd scout right away. Heck, make a 3rd. On the huge earth map I produced 4 as there were so many ruins around. But you don't always know your map (random/shuffle). If you're a player that likes to be surprised and not have an advantage by knowing things like this in advance, you can roll a small island or continent and not know it. It's only if I feel I've found most of the ruins and no culture ruin that I hedge my bets and build monument. I've had too many games where I counted on the ruin, didn't get it, continent turned out smaller than I thought where one scout would've been adequate and the 2nd scout was a waste of hammers. Now I have to wait 25 turns to even open anything. This is why I say don't always wait to build monument, sure you get a free one but you have to wait 25+8 = 33 turns to get it. those first few policies are pretty big. It can mean the difference in getting Landed Elite 20 turns earlier which outweighs spending only 6 turns on a monument. You get a free amphitheater not long afterward with writer slot if you do this as well so the hammers aren't wasted. If anything they are magnified. Amphitheater is far more expensive than a little monument which is one of the fastest buildings to build. Even early-game.
 
I play a lot as the Incas - one of my favourites. It depends on map and SP choise. When I go honor witch I often do - it's a warrior for barbhunt and worker steal.
 
After you build the monument, then you build the scout, still. You can explore for ruins and steal workers easier than with workers.
 
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