Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Napoleon_IV, Jun 22, 2014.
Does anyone know if you can build cities on the sea? I loved the ability to do this in SMAC..
Sofar, not a single beep of the sonar on that.
I hope. It would make if it could better spread the resources across the ocean, unlike Civ V, where the deep ocean was a vast desert with only oil and the Krakatoa...
Lack of living space has never been a concern (and I certainly doubt it ever will be), so it wouldn't make much sense to colonize the oceans in the sense of having actual population centers there. A better solution would be the ability to put faction-owned oil rigs and such a certain radius outside your territory, but I'm not sure that'd even add much to gameplay.
I see this as a likely possibility. Stations that are deep in the ocean seem more likely than deep ocean cities (primarily because they haven't mentioned it)
So its been mentioned that BE is the "spiritual successor" to SMAC, and yet there is an ever growing list of SMAC basics (such as the Unit Workshop) which won't be in. Do we add no sea bases to this list as well?
I've also heard that the seas will boast some of the toughest NL in the game (currently I can't find that reference, so not 100% positive on that), so if this is true then probably there won't be sea bases, as the game would have an imbalance in regards to starting positions (sea versus land starts).
So if there are no sea bases, then there aren't going to be aquatic worlds (i.e. >80% water)? One of the things I've always thought was under-served in the Civ series in general were the aquatic environments. A good example of this from SMACX would be Monoliths and Fungal Towers: both would spawn on land, but neither would spawn in water. For those that enjoy a good tussle in the water, I do hope that BE will provide a good gaming environment in this regards.
The reason they use the term "spiritual successor" is because it is not a verbatim clone. I invokes the sense that it will have similar themes and occupies a similar niche. Do not expect a great deal of carryover in the way of features.
So this reference would be similar to how Pandora is also a spiritual successor to SMAC, then?
Oooh, aquatic Stations! Now that would be cool!
Well, let's keep in mind that if there were sea bases you wouldn't use them until late in the game when all that sweet sweet land has been claimed.
But yeah, I think stations are probably more realistic. The world would have to be pretty full before population centers under water become cost-effective.
Two words: Expansion Pack
Seriously though I hope they include sea bases at some point. If nothing else it might force Firaxis to fix the AI's aversion to water heavy maps.(This is Civ V AI we're talking about after all)
They might come out with a biome option that has more water than on Earth. I would not oppose something like that as long as we could build dams and reclaim space.
They do have an 'atlantean' map script (probably the 'island' map script)
Although that is not a biome.
That would be in line with the lore for the North American Reclamation Corporation. But Gamewise Civ5 never had any terraforming options, just to build something on a tile (and the terraforming in BE seems to be a tile improvement too which is somewhat sad). Storywise i agree with CommunistCookie: Planet is so big and we humans that traveled here are so few, there is just no real need to build huge dams for more land. Don't think Netherlands, think Wild West.
while a cools scifi concept, the problem I had with sea cities in SMAC was that the map became a mess. There was no natural boundaries to nations/factions anymore, no space for open field warfare or sneaking up anywhere because and the planet was completely full of cities. I thought it was cool that a cities could survive rising sea levels with a dome if you strategically raise the sea to destroy a coastal faction who didnt plan ahead, but it is IMHO not worth the mess it makes of the map.
Unless your genetic engineering can turn your citizens into Gungans, ocean cities for human colonist are pretty silly.
The other thing would be pretty silly, too.
I hated sea colonies so very much. Nothing would annoy me more than ruthlessly destroying an opponent only to have him sneak a few colony ships out and form new colonies halfway around the world that I then had to build or retask my navy to go kill them, then scuttle the cities before the inefficiency mechanic strangled them.
The AI for them was awful too. They'd plop cities everywhere (because with an army of terraformers, there's no bad sea tiles), including, and especially two tiles off of the coast of my continent blocking in my harbors.
There'd have to be some serious changes to the mechanic for it to be included, especially since with no elevation mechanic, there's no global warming/pollution-based flooding.
the lack of physical structure imposing natural boundaries on borders is infuriating and also not very realistic.
I would be OK with cities in shallow water, just off the coast which you could argue was on pilons like Venice or Neft Daşları, but in the deep sea was nonsense.
that said, how much do we know of terraforming in CBE? can we create new land like in SMAC?
That just sounds like the idea needs iteration, not ditching. Especially in a sci-fi game, there's lots of potential for it - you could introduce oceanic trenches, permanent storm cells, underwater volcanoes, atolls and more as "terrain" to force ships move differently than submarine units and push back oceanic expansion in the tech tree to make it work as a second "expansion phase" in the late game when borders are a lot more static.
There's really no way to iterate on that idea that makes it less ridiculous without drastically reducing the scope of it. Underwater population centers are an idea of fantasy, not science fiction.
Considering how the AI settles every useless 1-hex ice island now, can you imagine the mess if every ocean hex was up for grabs? I want a game mechanic where those useless cities start really hurting the AI.
Good points all, and I like the suggestion you make in your next post about only allowing seas cities off the coast. The SMAC factions would try that, only to lose fertile land to cities several tiles away, because of how the borders mechanic worked. The Civ5 border mechanic would be a big improvement for this aspect of the game.
Yeah, but I loved my sea colonies! There were only a few sweet spots on the canonical map, but they were very nice. I could not stand to have that pirate AI in the game because the sea colony spam was just ridiculous.
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