Seafaring and Commercial

[CyberChrist]

I saw another thread about this a few days ago, but I just can't find it and search isn't available so ....

In the previous thread someone made the claim that the commerce bonus from seafaring and commerical traits are not cumulative ... but they are.

City square commerce output in town/city/metro tested on coastal city with river and Monarchy - and the following traits:

Neither Commercial or Seafaring
Capitol: 4/4/4
Other: 2/3/4

Commercial
Capitol: 4/5/7
Other: 2/5/7

Seafaring
Capitol: 5/5/5
Other: 3/4/5

Commercial and Seafaring
Capitol: 5/6/8
Other: 3/6/8

 

[budweiser]

That's good to know. That means England can get extremely rich.

 

[Enkidu Warrior]

Shame we can't use all that gold to buy Conquests

 

[somateria]

Thanks for being thorough on that analysis CyberChrist. I had just started playing as England and had assumed that the efects were not cumulative because I hadn't noticed that the Commercial benefits don't kick in until you reach city size, so it "looked" only like a seafaring benefit. I will look forward to getting bodaciously rich just about the time that my now hopefully not completely useless Man-o-wars begin their rampage.

However, I think some one noticed that shield reduction benefits do not appear to be cumulative. E.g., Militatistic and Seafaring both get reduced (1/2) cost harbors ( I think), but Scandinavians still only get 1/2 reduction, not 1/4.

 

[CIVPhilzilla]

Cyber Christ do you know the bonuses for industrious? Can never find that information.

 

[CyberChrist]

Industrial trait is not working as officialy described and it seems it never really did, but here is the breakdown of possible bonus combinations following the town/city/metro format (for production this time).

City build on tile with NO shield
All nations: +0/+0/+1
Industrious: +0/+0/+2

City build on tile WITH shield(s)
All nations: +0/+1/+2
Industrious: +0/+1/+3

As you can see then industrious only get something extra over other nations when they hit metropolis size. The official description of Industrious says there should also be extra production at city size.

Please note that if you build cities on Jungle/Forest that has Grassland as base, it could be either with or without bonus shield and you wont be able to tell before you hit city size which it is.

 

[civzombie]

Cyber,

This looks wrong:

City build on tile with NO shield
All nations: +0/+0/+1
Industrious: +0/+0/+2


In my games, a new city always gets a shield in the tile the city is built on, even if I build on a resourceless grassland. (two food, one shield, some commerce).

Am I misunderstanding your chart?

 

[CyberChrist]

Hmm you are right, maybe I should have posted it with the no shield bonus. I was thinking more off what the Industrious trait offers

Ok let's try again ...

City build on tile with NO shield
All nations: 1/1/2
Industrious: 1/1/3

City build on tile WITH shield(s) (In addition to shields already provided by tile)
All nations: +0/+1/+2
Industrious: +0/+1/+3

 

[civzombie]

Wow, this is news to me.

I thought if you built on a grassland with a tile bonus, you got the same benefit as building on a grassland without.

Thus, I always started my cities on grassland without the bonus.

 

[civzombie]

This makes more sense to me:

City build on tile with NO shield
All nations: 1/1/2
Industrious: 1/1/3

City build on tile WITH shield(s)
All nations: 1/2/4
Industrious: 1/2/5

 

[downwithgravity]

excellent work, cyberchrist!

i love england now. seafaring and commercial rules (plus the man-o-war is just so darn cool!)

 

[CyberChrist]

civzombie:
Please ... you are only confusing people. My stats for terrain with shield(s) are additions to what production is already given by tile, if you settle on a forest (on plain base) with furs or hills with iron(2+city size/trait bonus) your proposed stats will be off - even more so in a mod where base production stats may be higher.

 

[civzombie]

So it should be like this?

City build on tile with NO shield
All nations: 1/1/2
Industrious: 1/1/3

City build on tile WITH shield(s)
All nations: 1/2/3
Industrious: 1/2/4


So your city has to reach size 7 to benefit from building on a grassland with resource instead of a grassland without?

 

[CyberChrist]

Originally posted by civzombie
So your city has to reach size 7 to benefit from building on a grassland with resource instead of a grassland without?

Well yes and no, you only start getting extra shields once you hit city and metro size. However since you always get at least 1 shield on any terrain regardless of normal production and since this minimum shield is only added AFTER any bonus from city size - you wont see a boost before you hit metropolis size on terrains with no inherent production.

You firm stats for tiles with shield(s) will ONLY be accurate if the terrain (w/ any resource) ONLY offers 1 shield to start with, in case of a tile 2 or more as base output (ie. Hills with Iron) you will need to add the number from my little table to the base output of that tile.