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Seafaring is Superfluous: A No Ships Succession Game

Discussion in 'Civ2 - Stories & Tales' started by Prof. Garfield, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    This is an idea I've had for a while, which I think will make an interesting challenge.

    Settings: Deity, standard rules, large map, no starting techs.

    Goal: Win by Spaceship (the only ship we'll build).

    Rules:

    (1): We are not allowed to build (or bribe) boats for any reason, even to uncover squares in the city radius. We can, however, build harbours.

    (2): We can't build Marco Polo's Embassy or the United Nations. Once the UN is built, we will be allowed to use the contact that provides to reach the civs that never visit our island.

    I think this game will provide an interesting set of challenges. The most obvious is being unable to get an offshore delivery bonus for caravans. Also, a foreign bonus will be difficult, and distance will be severely restricted.

    I'm not sure quite how large our landmass is, but I don't think it will be large enough to let us build an arbitrary number of cities. So we'll be limited by the number of cities that we can build, thus limiting the most obvious way to get around limited trade bonuses. Also, this should make for shorter turns in real-time, especially with the prohibition of a massive trade network.

    Finally, our foreign contact will be limited only to those who reach our shores, at least until the UN, and we won't have embassies with most (if not all) civs.


    (1) 4000 BC: Black clicking reveals that this island is at least moderately large, so it should suit the purpose of this game well. Hut: Archers.
    (2) 3950 BC: I’m in a difficult position. I’m not sure if I should reserve the river for an SSC or build 2 cities on it. Problem made worse because in a normal game I would place the cities in such a way that both would have to be disbanded if we had to use the location as an SSC. Decide to explore south with a settler to see if there is a special (and what kind) that would help me make my decision: Buffalo. Decision is made, an SSC with only a few river squares and at best one trade special (if the river grassland even has one) is not a particularly good spot. Will build two cities. Build Berlin, start warrior. Science at 60%.
    (3) 3900 BC: Begin Alphabet.
    (4) 3850 BC: Build Leipzig on the shield grassland instead of the clear one so that it can take advantage of the buffalo when the time comes. This is in the location the SSC would be located if it has to be here; I’m now wishing I’d built this city as Berlin, as if it must become an SSC, we’ll probably want to disband Berlin, and so we’d have to move the Capital. Oh well, life goes on.
    (5) 3800 BC: …
    (6) 3750 BC: Alphabet, begin Ceremonial Burial. Hut: Code of Laws!!!
    (7) 3700 BC: Berlin Warrior, begin Settler.
    (8) 3650 BC: No forest in Berlin city radius.
    (9) 3600 BC: Leipzig warrior. Will move this one to Berlin and produce another, so that Berlin’s can explore.
    (10) 3550 BC: …
    (11) 3500 BC: Hut: Warrior Code. Rush 2s on Berlin settlers.
    (12) 3450 BC: …
    (13) 3400 BC: Berlin grows to size 2; move second citizen from fish to plains.
    (14) 3350 BC: Leipzig warrior. Hut: Pottery. I seem to be getting a lot of techs from huts.
    (15) 3300 BC: Leipzig size 2.


    Notes:

    I built both cities on the river in order to get 3 trade from each. I'm not recommending that we build all our cities that close together (although it would be an interesting strategy to do so and have them all have trade routes with the SSC as a way of boosting total trade arrows).

    I've been doing more exploring than I usually do at this stage, but I think that we have to get some idea of our island to make plans. I'm guessing that an SSC will be crucial for this game, so we should look for a place to set one up.
     

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  2. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Count me in.

    I've seen the game, and so far I think that we don't need to build more exploring units, as our continent does not look large, and that even in new cities. Settlers rule.

    We have some good options for expansion. Personally, I'd send the next Berlin settler to the east, so it can build a city and have buffalo OR send it north in order to use forest. I would take the 1st option however, since that piece of land looks less like a dead end land-wise.

    Leipzig's future settler... no idea, no good site nearby. Perhaps 3 squares south and alternate the buffalo from Leipzig to that new city?

    Also, we can't build sea units. Since our only ship that we'll build will be the spaceship, does that mean that airplanes are also not allowed?
     
  3. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

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    I will play too but won't play 2nd. Perhaps Jokemaster will play 2nd.
     
  4. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I hadn't really thought of that. I don't think it will make much of a difference either way (unless we were to use helicopters and paratroopers to take cities on nearby islands). We might as well disallow them; it will make the achievement seem a little more impressive if we restrict ourselves completely to ground units.
     
  5. Catwalk

    Catwalk Warlord

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    I'd like to play too. I haven't played Civ in forever, usually preferring Master of Magic or Orion :) I think I can hold up well enough, but I'll make sure to ask for advice when in doubt. I've been working on a balancing mod for Civ II since forever, not sure if I'll ever get around to finishing it.

    I'm also currently playing in a Master of Orion SG, come visit us in the MOO section :)
     
  6. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    You are more than welcome to play. Make sure you have Civ 2 version 2.42 ("Classic").

    I'm not sure if Jokemaster has started playing or not.
     
  7. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Between catching up on my education, writing up my own theories about Civ2 strategy, and real life, I have not had much time to game so far, but I have a few hours right now. Hopefully it will be enough.

    EDIT:
    Plan: Expand near shield-heavy squares. I will try to rb judiciously. Someday we will need to check out if the (125, 37) square contains a special/is a prairie square. If no to both, then I'm pretty sure that (121, 29) contains a hidden special. I’m pretty sure it will be a Fish-type special however.

    We have 4 techs right now. I’m pretty sure that when we will discover Ceremonial Burial, the tech group will be 2 and that Monarchy will not be offered for research! We need a tech from huts/AI. If that’s not possible, I will choose BW next and hopefully get it from a hut. With that being said, is it true that techs higher up the list alphabetically have higher odds of being given out from huts?
     
  8. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Here are my turns.

    Turn 0 (3300 BC) Nothing. Tech cost 75.

    Turn 1 (3250 BC) Rush 4s in Leipzig for settler. 16g left.

    Turn 2 (3200 BC) Rush 4s in Berlin for settler. 10g left. 45/75 beakers.

    Turn 3 (3150 BC) Nothing.

    Turn 4 (3100 BC) Switch Berlin worker from Plains to Fish, settler still done in 2 turns but +1f, b and g. We seem to have a lot of plains... not good for growth.

    Turn 5 (3050 BC) Rush 4s in Leip for settler: settler in 3 turns. Berlin: settler next turn. 9g left.

    Turn 6 (3000 BC) Berlin settler. Switch worker from river grassland to fish in Leipzig: +1g, settler still completed in 2 turns.

    Turn 7 (2950 BC) Time is running out for a hut... Leipzig: settler next turn. Archer discovers forest near proposed city site for Leipzig settler.

    Turn 8 (2900 BC) Leipzig settler.

    Turn 9 (2850 BC) No hut, and discovery next turn...

    Turn 10 (2800 BC) Ceremonial Burial discovered, Monarchy NOT AVAILABLE. Bronze working picked for research. Build Hambourg at (127, 29) start settler. We need to send the Berlin warrior back to Hambourg for unrest control ASAP. Techrate 20 turns, 96 beakers needed.

    Turn 11 (2750 BC) Rush 4s in Berlin: 14g left. Build Konigsberg at (120, 38) start warrior as black clicking tells me that the Archer should keep exploring. Archer finds desert square, and a whale!

    Turn 12 (2700 BC) Nothing.

    Turn 13 (2650 BC) Berlin size 2, switch worker from Fish to Plains. (125, 37) is ocean, and contains a Fish special. Dang. Rush 4s in Hambourg. 11g left.

    Turn 14 (2600 BC) Archer uncovers a hut south. On a desert square, and my set of turns will end next turn... can someone please say ‘’suspense’’ if barbs pop up?

    Turn 15 (2550 BC) Switch Leipzig worker to Buffalo (city grows next turn) and Berlin worker from Plains to freed river grassland square. Hut: 25g.

    What I’m seeing is 4 cities, with 4 different expansion solutions to take. Berlin should, IMO,send 2 settlers north and west. Hambourg and Konigsberg should fill their respective countrylands (hambourg sends settlers east and Konigsberg sends some south) Konigsberg should also send a single settler west. As for Leipzig, I’d build a single additional settler there, and then prep the city for a SSC. With only 3 specials and bad land, it does not look like a great starting location, but I don’t see a better location so far.

    Leipzig will grow next turn. Konigsberg will produce a warrior next turn: it can provide martial law. The Berlin warrior should head back to Hambourg for happiness control.
     

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  9. Catwalk

    Catwalk Warlord

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    Is there a playing order, or can we claim the game freely? I'm up, if I'm allowed :)
     
  10. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    There is a playing order, but we're not sure if Magic can play right now.

    Anyways, just a handy tip: When cities are size 1, try to favour using food squares, so it grows to size 2 ASAP. When they are size 2, favour shield-heavy squares, like forest or Buffalo so settlers are built quicker.
     
  11. Catwalk

    Catwalk Warlord

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    Also, how soon do you usually start improving terrain? In this situation, I'd make it a priority to build a road by Konigsberg and irrigation + road by the Hambourg buffalo.

    I suggest the following expansion sites, in order of priority:
    Hambourg (132,34) - (138,38) - (126,36)
    Konigsberg (120,44) - (113,39) - (106,36)
    Leipzig (111,33)
    Berlin unknown, first north then west
     
  12. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    Improving terrain? It's too early to think about that. Too slow, and since we have 2 cities on rivers we also have a decent science output. We need to focus on cities.

    I'd build cities closer by, but not too close too. About 3-4 squares distance is usually what I put. Since we have limited land at our disposal, we might consider putting those cities closer. At this point of the game, cities need one good food square (shield grassland) and 2 good shield squares (buffalo, forest are examples) so try to adjust priorities that way. If we fill the island faster, than we can start focusing on WLTPD growth faster.

    EDIT: Forgot to add this. When you click on ''Game'' on the Civ2 menu, and then on ''Game Options'' in the dropdown menu, a game options screen will appear, with the number of your version above. It should read ''Civilization II 2.42'' and a date afterwards. If you don't have that, then please tell what version you have.
     
  13. Catwalk

    Catwalk Warlord

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    Alright, points taken. I just downloaded the 2.42 patch. I'll let Magic decide on stuff and go after him :)
     
  14. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    I don't usually irrigate unless I'm pretty far into the game, and at this point I only build roads if the settler will step on that square anyway in order to go where he's going. Others start making roads and irrigation sooner than I do.

    I'm not sure where I would place cities. Ordinarily I would place them on coastal grasslands and partition the specials among different cities, rather than have cities with three or four specials. With our rules, however, we'll be unable to use a lot of ocean squares unless we trade maps with civilizations that happen to come to our island and uncover those squares along the way.

    We seem to be devoid of trade specials in our area; this could create trouble in finding an SSC location; perhaps we'll have to use a place where we can uncover lots of water.
     
  15. mackerel

    mackerel Warlord

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    I'll join, don't care who I follow.
     
  16. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    No. The way a random tech is chosen is as follows:

    Each tech is given a number between 1 and 93.

    The Computer randomly generates a number between 1 and 93.

    It finds the tech corresponding to the number generated. If that tech is "appropriate" (for huts, it is if you have both pre-req techs) the tech is returned and you get it. If the tech is not appropriate, the computer goes down the list checking each tech until it finds a tech that it "can" return. If it gets to the bottom of the list, it goes back to the top.
     
  17. Jokemaster

    Jokemaster Insert something here

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    The techs that are given numbers... is there a list somewhere of which techs have which numbers? Or is it alphabetically?
     
  18. Prof. Garfield

    Prof. Garfield Deity Supporter

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    It is the order in which they appear in the rules.txt (the same list you would use for calculating missing techs), which is alphabetical, ignoring things like the "The" in front of The Corporation, etc. I could have said the Computer generates a random number and proceeds down the list subtracting 1 from the number each time until it reaches 0 and then begins the search.

    Note that I gave the number for classic (I think 93 is the correct number). MGE has 100 techs, IIRC, with the extra advances down at the end, giving the first available tech in the list a higher probability to occur in that version.
     
  19. Magic_gorter

    Magic_gorter Deity Civ2 GOTM Staff Retired Moderator

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    Catwalk can start playing if he can finish before monday. Otherwise I play next.
     
  20. Catwalk

    Catwalk Warlord

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    Then I shall have a go at it, wish me luck!

    Plans and questions:
    1) No terraforming :p
    2) Putting cities a bit closer together (should I go for good sites first, or just take the nearest acceptable spot?)
    3) How many cities for first extra unhappy camper, and is it +1 for each city after that? How many in Monarchy?
    4) I assume Monarchy is our research priority, not sure what else
     

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