1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Second revolution in Egypt?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by RedRalph, Nov 21, 2011.

  1. RedRalph

    RedRalph Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2007
    Messages:
    20,708
    It's beginning to look like another (this time anti-military) revolution might be coming in Egypt... anyone expect it to succeed?
     
  2. Lillefix

    Lillefix I'm serious. You can.

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2003
    Messages:
    5,688
    They're going to have elections soon, aren't they? What do they want exactly?
     
  3. timtofly

    timtofly One Day

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Messages:
    9,439
    From what I gather, they want things instantly.

    The process is going too slow.
     
  4. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2005
    Messages:
    50,374
    Location:
    Stamford Bridge
    It isn't a second revolution, it's a continuation of what happened in the spring. People have been protesting in the streets non-stop, even after Mubarak was already deposed. They want the military to hand over the running of the country to a civilian government.

    I bet that the military wants to take its sweet time with this so that they can make sure that their own interests are looked after when the new government comes into power..
     
  5. say1988

    say1988 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,659
    Quoting the New York Times "the military-led government put in writing a set of ground rules for a next constitution that would have given the military authority to intervene in civilian politics while protecting it from civilian oversight". It says they have since backed down somewhat (only an advisory role) but I don't really know what is going on or even how accurate the report is.
     
  6. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,721
    The military and current protesters are being played.

    The Muslim Brotherhood held a demonstration on Friday to start this all off that was non violent and orderly and disbursed at the end of the day. The next day the secularists showed up and did a repeat of their last episode. The Muslim Brotherhood is nearly entirely absent from the subsequent days of protesting because they are smart. They protested for a day to make their point and now they are busy organizing and not fracturing or distracting their followers in the run up to the parlimentary elections next week which the military will make sure happen if for no other reason to show the secularists they are not dragging their feet on everything.

    The MB are looking to make a sweep and I don't think there is any way to prevent this.
     
  7. Rulle_Kebab

    Rulle_Kebab Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Egypt(Danish)
    Well the protesters want the field marshall Tantawi to step down. Along with his friends.
    Since the first revolution they have arrested thousands... like 50.000 these last few months and have continued to torture and molest.
    So I think it is fair enough.
    The Muslim brotherhood might get a good election but they arent the worst.
    Oh and dont believe the low numbers of dead and injured. They are many many more than what is reported. The injured are streaming in to the field hospitals in Tahrir. Like 1 injured a minute.
    And yes they are again killing the protesters with new US made weapons and ammo... American educated snipers kill protesters from rooftops(Funny how almmost all evil comes from across the atlantic :p ).
    SCAF has no legitimacy and the government is without any real power.
    So all in all, they threw out Mubarak to let his cronies take over and nothing has changed.
    I hope the million man demo tomorrow storms maspierro and the tv station. This will be the end of SCAF and Mubaraks cronies.
     
  8. say1988

    say1988 Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2006
    Messages:
    4,659
    Is it known who, if push comes to shove, does the rank and file of the army stand with? The military leadership or protestors?
     
  9. shadowplay

    shadowplay (boss music)

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2003
    Messages:
    5,575
    Location:
    Toronto
    Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss....
     
  10. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,721
    Thats not really a meaningful question as the protestors encompass different groups that are at odds with each other.

    The military is essentialy a secular hedge in the country, which is why I say the military and the secular protestors are getting played while the Muslim Brotherhood steals (legally) the elections.

    In the end the military takes care of its own and the vindictive nature of protestors would I imagine keep any soldier with the military.
     
  11. Rulle_Kebab

    Rulle_Kebab Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Egypt(Danish)
    Another problem with the military in egypt is that they own a lot of things...
    factories, cotton industry, petrol stations, real estate and so on and on and they have vast economical interests and besides that they want to stay out of parliamental and democratic control, including their budget, which ofcourse isnt what the people like.

    And the US/Israeli resentment is growing strong now again bacause of new weapon deliveries which will only help the Salafist and Muslim brotherhood support.

    Al azhar gave a fatwa the other day that says the army is responsible and that if they kill protesters they will face the punishment of a muslim killing a muslim(which is an express elevator to hell according to Islam).


    So I think if it came to it we will again see the soldiers refusing to open fire, on a large scale that is....

    You can follow on al jazeera international on youtube, they are live at tahrir right now...
     
  12. Patroklos

    Patroklos Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2003
    Messages:
    12,721
    The weapons deliveries have nothing to do with anything. Do you honestly think the military would be wanting for rifles, tear gas and batons but for the US?

    US military aid is for one thing and one thing only, to maintain a balance of power between Israel and Egypt and prevent another war. Though it appears many protestors both islamic and secular are all about a new Egypt-Israeli war.
     
  13. zjl56

    zjl56 Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,242
    Location:
    Iowa
    The delayed elections certainly had a huge factor for the protesters. The protests themselves are certainly necessary in order to keep the promise of elections to come to fruition, but the blood is entirely on the hands of the corrupt military there.
     
  14. Rulle_Kebab

    Rulle_Kebab Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Egypt(Danish)
    No I dont think it will come to a war between Egypt and Israel, not because of the revolution atleast.

    But the us military aid is being used on the public and it just incites more resentment and help the hardline muslim groups.
    I think many egyptians, secular, muslim, christian and whatever are tired of being forced to deal with Israel on uneven terms. Thats why we see the gaspipeline getting blown up all the time. And I can understand them. Why are they forced(if they want USaid) to make deals favoring the Israelis?

    But yeah it is a pickle... for the western nations, this arab uprising.

    I can understand the USaid and the attempt at keeping things balanced but not many egyptians are that pragmatic, it is their children dying, it is them who are totured, that have no rights, being tried in military courts... I dont think they understand or agree with it.
    I think they see it as US and Israel helping the new regime oppress and kill them just like they did with the old regime.
    US should really stop putting "made in the USA" on those canisters and bullets heheh.
     
  15. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
    15,165
    Gender:
    Male
    They compromised on Mubarak, I imagine, because they thought that would be enough to diffuse the tensions yet allow continued military rule.

    It didn't work.

    I don't think they're going to hand over power peacefully. Either the protests will dissipate, or a civil war will begin. Because I don't think the military's going to give up power any time soon.

    Failing that, when the elections come, it sounds like the Muslim Brotherhood will win. And, given that they're theocrats, they'll likely dissolve the electoral cycle in some manner.

    Egypt's screwed either way, it sounds like. A bloody civil war or a theocracy. What a wonderful set of choices.
     
  16. Verarde

    Verarde Pondering Wearing A Hat

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Messages:
    3,795
    Location:
    Northern VA
    The way I see it, the military just needs to let go of its control, and bring about the change that has been promised. Unfortunately, it seems that these scenarios are becoming all too common now.
     
  17. innonimatu

    innonimatu Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2006
    Messages:
    12,234
    US military aid anywhere in the world is, internationally, for one thing and one thing only: to buy the allegiance of the military in the countries they "aid". Some fall for it, some don't, but the US keeps trying.

    Nationally, it's to feed its weapons industries.
     
  18. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    9,492
    Gender:
    Male
    Yeah. Besides, whoever runs the Egyptian government is really ******** if US military aid is what keeps them from getting hostile towards Israel.
     
  19. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Messages:
    5,461
    Location:
    The Frozen North
    'revolutions' are a process. Anyone who expected anything close to a smooth ride in Egypt (or any other country) is wrong, imo.
     
  20. zjl56

    zjl56 Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2004
    Messages:
    1,242
    Location:
    Iowa
    As a nation as a whole it would be ********, but we are talking about individual politicians who will make millions off the deals that are negotiated between the U.S, Israel in them. The game has never been about supporting rational interests of the Egyptian people, but greasing the right hands in order to let Israel have a free hand in the region. This definitely fuels a lot of resentment, but Mubarek had a good 30 year run of it.
     

Share This Page