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Selling Civ 5

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by kooboo, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. Senethro

    Senethro Overlord

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    Why should the developer have to compete against their own good-as-new product?

    Its different because the devs/pubs believe they can enforce a difference enough of the time.

    Basically, they're going to get you one way or the other. If you only buy second hand then soon you'll either have a very limited choice of game selection and problems with scammers selling their game and repossessing the online account, or they'll sell half the game as DLC.

    Its not like games aren't dirt cheap already if you just have the patience to wait a year!
     
  2. mystiqblackcat

    mystiqblackcat Chieftain

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    Hey.

    I read an article a couple of weeks ago; can't remember if it was on Gamespy/IGN or a link from another site but the crux was that Valve/Steam were looking into letting users "trade in" games they have purchased on Steam for credit. So you would lose the serial and rights to the game and get some money back; obviously not the full price but something is better than nothing.

    I don't know if it is really going to happen but that would be a good solution.
     
  3. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    EULAs can not invalidate your consumer rights, they have been successfully challenged in court when they did that. If you find out after trying the product that it doesn't work on your computer, for example, you are due a refund, even if you clicked the EULA that says you can't return it.
     
  4. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    That's true, my guess it's either an implied warranty or a public policy concern that mandates that, but it makes sense.

    Still, they are allowed to let you have a product and then agree to a contract afterward that agrees to additional terms. The caveat is, if you don't agree to the additional terms, you're allowed to give the thing back. The thing was only sold on the condition that you would agree to the new terms. Therefore, you can undo the agreement up to that point. In the internet age, I think EULA are becoming less relevant, though. Now they can show you all the terms before you click purchase, since everything can be done online.
     
  5. hclass

    hclass Prince

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    Ummm...
    Yes! That is just like even someone sign an agreement with me that I can kill him, and if I did, I will still be charged for murder.
    EULA simply can't overwrites exisiting laws.
     
  6. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    You can contract around things designed to be contracted around. Public policy and illegality apply to things you can't contract around. Allowing you to pay for a non-transferable lease is something that can be contracted for.

    Unless you want to tell me that if someone rents you an apartment, you have absolute right to sell the place.
     
  7. blind biker

    blind biker King

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    Correct. And Valve will get into some kind of major trouble (game-changing trouble) in the EU, sooner or later. My guess is, in the Netherlands, Sweden or Germany.
     
  8. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    No, but if water leaks into the appartment, they have to fix it or return (part) of my money. Also, I know that I rent it when signing the contract, and the contract is specifically for renting, not for buying. If I buy a game at the store, the contract is "signed" at the time I hand over the cash, at which point I have no way to read the EULA.
     
  9. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    That's why you need to be able to return it if you don't agree to the terms, I agree completely there. Still, everyone knows there will be a EULA when you purchase a game. What's the last one you had that didn't have one?
     
  10. The_J

    The_J Say No 2 Net Validations Retired Moderator Supporter

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    Too late for the rant :(.
    We've been discussing this for around a half year now, and we knew since then that it will not be possible.
     
  11. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    I know that there is a EULA but not what's in it. It's like signing a contract without being able to read the fine print, which one normally would practically never do, yet strangely with games there is no other way
     
  12. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    But you can agree to look at the contract before you read it? If you can get your money back if you don't agree, is there a distinction?

    Now, since as far as I know, Steam does not allow refunds if you disagree with the contract, I agree that what they're doing isn't exactly kosher. I'm just saying EULAs and situations where you receive the product before you sign the contract aren't necessarily a violation of your rights or of contract law.
     
  13. CreepyD

    CreepyD Chieftain

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    The Trade-In mentioned above could work on Steam.
    Sell it for a lower than usual cost and get some Steam credit back (Which can only be spent on other games).
    Steam will obviously still be selling licenses for a higher price than buying, therefore enabling people to buy more games overall as they will have all these credits to spend (Still have to put cash towards them!)
    I hope this comes to exist.
     
  14. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    I think it would be a good business model for Steam. They'll only give credit, so it forces you to keep buying with them. Hopefully they'll consider it (maybe the same time they add an actual easy to use "play offline" UI ;) ).
     
  15. Aivoturso

    Aivoturso King

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    First the disclaimer: I do not claim to be a lawyer and especially I do not claim to have any intimate knowledge on legal system of the United States of America. So please, consult your lawyer before taking any legal action :)

    That being said, I've understood that in US they take contracts (e.g. EULAs) quite seriously. It just happenst that following paragraph is a part of CiV EULA (as written in the manual):

    IMO, this makes it pretty clear that it should be possible to sell your copy of CiV under the EULA. In fact, I believe that you could argue you should even be able to sell a copy purchased directly from Steam store. If you are contacting Steam support on this, you may want to point this clause out for them. If you do contact Steam, please report on how it goes. I'm not planning on selling my copy. I'm just curious.
     
  16. Louis XXIV

    Louis XXIV Le Roi Soleil

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    Ooh, that's a good find (although it shows you how I, like most people in the world, don't actually read EULAs ;) ). My fear is that Steam itself has its own EULA that is far harsher. I'm not sure what you do with the conflict. Still, that might be enough room to either allow you to resell/transfer to another user on steam or to allow a refund.
     
  17. markantony

    markantony Warlord

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    This question was answered multiple times on the 2K forums. Why ask here?
     
  18. blind biker

    blind biker King

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    Oh, MULTIPLE TIMES, even? Why is that? Isn't ONE answer enough? Did you pop into those other threads and tell everyone "this question was already answered here once/twice/thrice/multiple times"?

    No?

    Then you assumed that those other answers weren't correct, weren't easy to find or weren't comprehensive enough.

    And that is why it is being asked here, again :goodjob:
     
  19. markantony

    markantony Warlord

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    What are you talking about? The OP made the same thread on the 2k forums and was given the answer. That is why I am asking whats the point of asking the same question here.

    What "multiple threads" are you talking about? I never mentioned any and how have I assumed the answers were not correct?
     
  20. blind biker

    blind biker King

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    I misunderstood what you meant by "answered multiple times" - did not know there was a thread started in the 2K forums, by the same OP (if it is the same OP). :blush:
     

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